ture to touch on a subject, which formed part of the discussion in that Court on the day before yesterday. He meant the state of the civil service, previously to the establishment of the College at Calcutta, by the Marquess Wellesley, or to the foundation of Haileybury College by those gentlemen who were anxious to have an institution nearer home. An Hon. Friend (Mr. Poynder), whom he did not then see in his place, did, he believe, say, in the hurry of debate at the last Court, that the minute of the Marquess Wellesley conveyed an idea of the most deplorable ignorance amongst all classes of the Company's civil servants, at the time it was written. These words, he had no doubt, were used; and they were, he supposed, taken down as accurately by the reporters as by him. Now, he would be really sorry if such an assertion went forth to the world uncontradicted. He felt great respect for the Marquess Wellesley, but he felt much greater respect for truth; and truth compelled him to say, that the Noble Marquess was under a temptation to rather overcolour the picture he drew of the civil service. He had to make out a case (one that would be satisfactory to gentlemen behind the bar), to justify the expenditure of some half-million of money for the erection of a College at Fort William. But, as the authority of the Marquess Wellesley had been quoted on one side of the question-as it had been quoted, in proof that the civil servants were, when he entered on the duties of administration, weak and inefficient, it would be proper for him (Mr. Trant) to quote what that Noble Marquess had said with reference to those gentlemen who went out to India before any establishment for the education of their civil servants had been instituted. He wished, therefore, to call the attention of the Court to the following sentiments delivered by that Noble Lord. The Marquess Wellesley had thus expressed himself:"The study and acquisition of the languages have, however, been extended in Bengal; and the general knowledge and qualifications of the civil servants have been improved. The proportion of the civil servants, who have made a considerable progress towards the attainment of the qualifications requisite in their several stations, appears great, and even astonishing, when viewed with regard to the early disadvan tages, embarrassments, and defects of the civil service." It would certainly appear from this, that the individuals who were at that period employed in the civil service, were not taken from behind petty counters -were not selected from the low and uninformed classes: all which might be inferred from the speech of his Hon. Friend. There

The reporters were, at the time, in a very bad situation for taking down any thing.

were, at that day, able and intelligent men about the Marquess Wellesley. There were some then in Court, whose names he would mention, had they not been present. There were others, however, whom, he regretted to say, they could never again see in that place, and whom he might therefore name without offence. There was, magnum et venerabile nomen, Grant ; there was Lumsden; (Hear !) and, if it were necessary, he could point out several other distinguished characters. At length the College at Haileybury was established, and subsequently that most important clause, which was at present under the consideration of the Court, was introduced into the Act of Parliament. He would not enter much into that part of the subject, after the conclusive statement of the Hon. Member who had introduced this motion. But there was one part on which that Hon. Gent. did not touch, which was well worthy of attention, as it placed the inconvenience of this restrictive clause in a very clear light. He would ask this question, whether the Bengal and the other governments of India had not made an application for a larger supply of young men for their establishments? He had been informed, on good authority, that the Bengal Government had now a less proportion of civil servants than was attached to it in 1810. The Hon. Director who had just sat down, had eloquently stated the duties which resulted from our late increase of territory: he (Mr. Trant) would now lay before the Proprietors what the state of the muster-roll of Haileybury was at present. There were eighty or eightyone students, of whom twenty or twentyone had kept three terms; so that, in the next six months, twenty-one civil servants might be sent out to India. Now, according to his view of the exigencies of this service, he thought they might double, triple-nay, quadruple that number with good effect. But how were they to do this? The Act of Parliament said, "no person shall be admitted to the civil service of the Company until he has passed four terms at Haileybury." This, then, was a bar to their sending out young men, however well qualified, until this regulation had been complied with. It had been stated, in the course of the debate, that they who supported this motion, ought to be prepared to prove that Haileybury College was malum in se; and that, if such were the case, it ought to be wholly abolished. Now, he would give his reasons for thinking that it was malum in se. After what Lord Grenville had said (and he believed no man could doubt the wisdom and experience of that Noble Lord, especially in matters of education: no man, he imagined, could doubt, that the Chancellor of the University of Oxford was a competent judge of questions of this

nature), after what he had said, the propriety of this exclusive system might well be challenged. He (Mr. Trant) had read attentively all the debates in that Court, he had perused all the publications on this subject, he had spared no pains to make himself master of it: and the result was, that he found his objections to this institution increased and confirmed. It was said, that our universities or public schools were unfit for imparting to young men destined for India those branches of knowledge which their situation would require. It was admitted that those establishments were very good for English purposes, but that they were good for nothing quo ad-hoc-that they were useless with respect to oriental education. He, however, was of opinion, that by certain additions to the College course-instruction in political economy, for instanceand by the institution of such professorships as the necessity of the case required, they might not only serve themselves essentially, but also confer a great national benefit. He thought that Oxford and Cambridge, with such additional means, would answer every purpose which the Company had in view. At present, those learned establishments had very good means for general instruction and education; and, with the addition of Oriental Professors, they could give to young men intended for the Company's civil service all the knowledge and information that the circumstances of their situation demanded. His slow apprehension was at a loss to discover why Mr. Pitt was taken from Cambridge and almost immediately placed at the helm of this great empire, if that university was not calculated to give an enlarged insight into questions of finance and of general policy. Let the Court consider, for a moment, the eminent men whom the universities had given to the country. Oxford had given us the present Lord Chancellor Eldon, and numbered Blackstone among her professors. He was slow, therefore, in admitting the idea, that a young man could not there arrive at a knowledge of the principles of English law. Oxford had produced the Marquess Wellesley; Mr. Canning, who had been president of the Board of Controul; and Lord Grenville, who was the first president of that Board. Would it be contended that Oxford was incapable of educating men for the subordinate offices of the Indian Government? The clergy of the establishment uniformly received their education at the universities. Could it therefore be believed, that the religion and morality which were to be had there were not fit for exportation to India? (Hear, hear!) He asked this question with the more earnestness, because they had heard much of the peculiar morality of Haileybury; as if no man,

But,

It

who had not been educated in that famous College, was fit to be trusted in their treasury abroad, was worthy of being admitted into their Government, or to be considered as a man of common honesty. (Cries of no, no.) At least, of that superior, that refined and exalted honesty, which was said to distinguish the persons educated at Haileybury. (Hear, hear!) He did not think that he had at all overstated the case, as he had heard it. having had some experience of the Company's civil administration in its different departments, he would say, if he wished to form an efficient public servant, "give me (or rather give to those in India who are competent to form him for service there) a young man from Oxford or Cam. bridge, who has been favoured with the usual means of general instruction; let him not be barely fifteen or sixteen, but twenty or twenty-one years of age, and if he does not serve you well, then I will say I have been very much mistaken." (A laugh.) On the subject of instruction in oriental literature at Haileybury, he begged leave to quote a passage from an article which had appeared in The Quarterly Review, in April 1817. was anonymous: but was supposed to have been written by a member of this Court, who had reviewed Mr. Malthus's pamphlet. The writer said, "Occupied, indeed, as the students are at the English college, with the simultaneous pursuit of several branches of European learning and science, and compelled, as they are, to accomplish their whole course within the short space of two years, it would be preposterous to expect that their acquirements in the oriental languages should, for the most part, be considerable; or, with reference to the extent and difficulty of those languages, should even reach mediocrity. We hesitate not to say that, in the sense described, they ought not to reach this limit. should, as was observed in an early part of these observations, be purely rudimen tal. Oriental literature, at any seminary established for the Company's servants in England, is to be considered rather as an appendage, though an important one, than as a principal, and should be pursued in careful subservience to those European studies which constitute the proper and primary business of such a place. In this view, we cannot help unequivocally disapproving of what has been established at the present college, under the name of the Oriental Test,' though it appears to have been originally suggested by Mr. Malthus himself. As an indispensable condition of leave to proceed to India, the students are required to attain a certain given degree of proficiency in oriental learning, and in this alone. But let there be a general test, or none at all. There is no

They

reason why one particular branch of study should thus be promoted in preference to the rest; and if one must be preferred, there are good reasons why that one should not be oriental literature. The truth is, that oriental literature has already sufficient encouragement, from the prospect of the distinctions conferred on it in the College at Calcutta and this is precisely the argument against distinguishing it by peculiar honours in the College at Hertford." Now he (Mr. Trant) must say, that the sentiments contained in this extract met his ideas exactly; they came home "to his business and his bosom." With respect to the discipline of the college, that most important question, which had been dwelt on with great force, both in this and in the former debates, he would state the opinion of a gentleman to whose eloquence they had formerly listened with delight. The passage was as follows:-"I conclude, therefore, that the system, in its usual operation, is good; that the usual course of management is good; that every thing is well arranged and well conducted; in short, that no blame can be imputed either to the constitution or to the administration of the college, but that the origin of the evil to be accounted for must be sought in something extrinsic, and perhaps adventitious. Now, Sir, in this point, it must be recollected, that the India college is in some respects very differently situated from all other institutions of the same species. The generality of collegiate establishments have been founded in times of very imperfect illumination, and by an authority which was considered as paramount. They have, therefore, easily acquired an unresisted sway; and having begun by being strong in power, have ended with being strong in opinion; they have become interwoven with all our national prejudices, and may be said to have struck their roots into the perpetual rock of the constitution. Hence they command the unqualified reverence of mankind; and any attempt to shake their authority, much more any attempt to endanger their existence, would be considered the last extreme of folly. The India College, on the other hand, has had to contend with something of those disadvantages that are experienced by a government established in times of light and liberty, in times when almost every man has an opinion, a voice, and a pen. It necessarily wants all that hold on the public mind, which is the growth of prescription and antiquity; that is, it wants one most important stay for the preservation of discipline, and the prevention of designs of tumult. A student of evil dispositions, (and we must expect a mixture of such in every numerous assemblage of individuals) may be led to entertain the idea that even a project of oversetting the establishment is not wholly out of reach; and, at all events, Asiatic Journ.-No. 100.

when a crisis of any kind arises, an institution like this is deficient in the means of overawing disturbance."* Such were the

sentiments of the gentleman to whom he had alluded.

• Non mens hic sermo, miki sed præcepit Ofellus." He could truly say, that, of all the arguments which he had heard against Haileybury College, this struck him as the strongest; and on this subject he would, with the permission of the Court, add a few remarks. This College, under the present system, would remain, and ever must remain, without the proper means of discipline. They all knew what the discipline of the universities was. In them there was a particular species of discipline belonging to each individual College, and there was, besides, the superintending discipline of the whole university, which was entrusted to the Vice-Chancellor, the Proctors, and other officers. Now, in the course of the former debates on this subject, it was admitted that the first Principal of the College was not well selected. He was, it seemed, a very amiable and learned man, but he wanted some of those qualities which were necessary for the government of such a body; and he (Mr. Trant) should not be at all astonished, if, at some future time, a similar admission were to be made from within the bar. At the universities, however, the evil was speedily remedied there, if an individual were found not to possess the necessary qualifi cations for the efficient government of a college, they soon heard of his being promoted. Gentlemen must recollect a recent disturbance at one of those colleges, and they must know by the Gazette, that a recent promotion sprang from that circumstance. Much had been said of the due maintenance of order and propriety at the college of Haileybury. Unfortunately he could not give credit to those statements; he differed from the Hon. Gent. behind the bar (Mr. Money) on this point; and, notwithstanding all that had been said, he (Mr. Trant) should not wish to send his son there. (Hear!) They had formerly been told, that the expulsions did not amount to 4 per cent., and according to the statement of the Hon. Director they had been reduced to 24 per cent. He, however, would contend, that the risk at this college was much higher than at other places where it would not amount to the fraction

:

(Hear, hear!) The state of the Company's service abroad imperatively demanded that this compulsory clause should he repealed. In 1812, or about that time, on a requisition from Lord Minto for fifty additional writers, the Hon. Gentlemen behind the bar were obliged to break through their own rule. Although, by the rule which they had themselves laid down, all the young men intended for the civil service were commanded to go to Haileybury; yet, on that occasion, so much were civil servants wanted, that the Directors were compelled to depart from that rule. (Hear!) He had, through the kindness of the Hon. Chairman, seen some documents connected with that subject, and, looking to those who were sent out on that occasion, he saw the names of two highly distinguished individuals, Mr. Macnaghten and Mr. Reid. He believed he was not wrong in stating, that Mr. Macnaghten was declared to be the best Oriental scholar that ever went from the college in Calcutta: he received prizes for his proficiency in Arabic, for his know. ledge of the Mahommedan law, and for his extensive acquaintance with Sanscrit and Hindoo law, and had been placed in a situation of the highest responsibility. He now came to a subject which had been touched on by one or two gentle men, and on which he was desirous to say a few words. He alluded to the conduct of the Directors in giving up to the Professors the power of expulsion, and the complete regulation of the college. In doing this, the Directors were charged with having acted unconstitutionally. For his own part, he was sure they had acted wisely, if not constitutionally. He was perfectly convinced, that if the College were to remain, the only way to prevent it from becoming a public nuisance was, to give full power to the College Council to rule the institution with a rod of iron if necessary. He believed the Directors did what they considered to be most advantageous for the service. The desire to render their service efficient seemed to be so sincere, that, in his opinion, the legislature ought to entrust them with more power than they at present possessed; they ought, at least, to have the power of dispensing with this rule of compulsory residence for a certain time in the college, which they had once been obliged to break through. In considering this subject, he would give very considerable latitude to the Directors, whose anxious feeling for the interest of the Company no man could doubt. Still, however, he thought the Hon. Gent, who brought forward this question was right, after what fell from the Chair, in refusing to withdraw his motion, because they ought this day to come to some specific resolution on the subject. While he was

or

on the subject of the selection and qualification of Civil Servants for India, he must be permitted to observe, that, even at the present time, there were not sufficient young men, properly qualified, to fill the many important situations in their service; nor would they, under the present system, ever have a supply of able and intelligent men commensurate with the demand. The state of the people of India, with respect to the acquirement of knowledge, the expansion of intellect, and with reference to many other points, was very different indeed from what it was some years ago, and they might find it soon necessary to resort to something like a system of competition, and to nominate two three candidates for one appointment? Now, with respect to the morality of the College, he had one word more to say. He had inquired much on that subject, and he had hoped to find Haileybury the "happy valley from which care, and vice, and discontent, were carefully and effectually shut out; he had been led to suppose that the seclusion of its situation had exempted it from all temptation. An Hon. Friend observed, that the streets of Oxford and Cambridge, at night, presented a shameful spectacle; but perhaps the Hon. Gent. might not find the lanes in the vicinity of Haileybury in a much better state; and he believed the walls of Haileybury sheltered, at the present moment, some of those vices which were too common to young men. He would speak boldly out: this was no time for silence; he would declare his opinion openly, "come what come may." He hoped he was misinformed; but he had been told that at this moment the fashionable, prevalent, and destructive vice of gaming was carried on at Haileybury to some extent. We ought to let it be known that we, the Proprietors of East-India Stock, are not to be put down by- or rather that we are not to put up with-the confident assertions which we continually hear, of the purity, morality, decency, propriety, and all that, by which Haileybury College is characterized. (Hear, hear !) There were one or two other points, which, if he might trespass a little more on their patience, and he had no intention of tasking it too much, he should wish slightly to notice. They had had, and probably would have again, numerous proofs of the very great proficiency, and the eminent attainments, by which the young men who had proceeded from Haileybury College were distinguished above all others. Now he was the last person in the world to dispute the eminent qualifications and acquirements of some of those young men ; but, from the statements that had been made, one would be inclined to suppose that the entire mass was pure gold; that every young man who came from Harley.

bury (especially after the letter which the Hon. Director had read) was a model of perfection. It so happened, however, that it had been his misfortune to be set over some young men in India who came from Haileybury; and he could assure the Court, if he had not been told that they came from that college, he should have very much doubted whether they had come from or been at any college at all. (A laugh.) Their learning was scanty, either through the neglect of others, or the want of attention in themselves; and as to that vigour of mind which sometimes made up for the defects of education, he could per ceive none of it. He would not descend to particulars, but he would mention one case, to prove that an individual, having gone through this system of discipline, and having had his mind formed in the way the Hon. Director had described, might, nevertheless, forget his lesson. He found, that the only instance in which the Government of India was compelled to proceed to extreme severity-that of sending back to England a young man who would learn nothing, and who, by his example, was spreading contagion around -that the individual so dismissed came from Haileybury College.

Here Mr. R. Grant rose and asked Mr. Trant to give the date of the appointment. Mr. Trant said he did not know the exact date, but that he would give a clue which might enable the secretary to find it out.

The Chairman said, the matter to which the Hon. Proprietor alluded was a case of notoriety behind the bar, and he trusted that he would abstain from stating any particulars that might go forth to the public.

Mr. Trant resumed. He said he would proceed no farther on that point, but as he had the paper containing an allusion to the case be had now mentioned in is hand, he would read from it some remarks from a speech delivered on Monday, the 21st of July 1823, by the Hon. Mr. Adam, Governor-General, and Visitor of the College at Fort William. The observations of that Hon. Gent. clearly proved that, under the existing system, Haileybury College was in. adequate to supply the number of civil servants which the business of the Government demanded. He said, "The exigencies of the public service and the consequent demands for public officers to carry on the indispensable business of the Government, must always have a powerful influence on the affairs of the college. Those exigencies have, for some years past, compelled us to rest satisfied with a scale of distinction somewhat below that to which we might naturally and reasonably aspire under a different state of circumstances. The facilities which, in order to meet this urgent demand, have

been afforded to the students, of leaving college on proof of their competence for the public service, not merely at the halfyearly examination, but at intermediate periods, necessarily operate to prevent the attainment in college of that proficiency which would otherwise be manifested by many of them." This shewed, most decisively, that the Indian Government were obliged to hurry young men through the college, and to enlist them into the public service, before they were properly qualified-and why? because you send them all to Haileybury, where they are compelled to remain for two years. (Hear, hear!) He did not think it necessary to say another word on the subject. He would now merely ask the Mover one question, and then sit down. According to his idea of the motion, as put, the Court of Directors, if it were carried, would have the power, should they think fit to exercise it, to prescribe any particular course of education. They were also, he understood, to appoint public examinations; and the publicity of that proceeding would, he conceived, do away with many of the objections to the removal of the compulsory clause. If the examinations, like those of the Charter-house, were perfectly open, it would, as had been well stated, guard it in a great measure from these inconveniences which were said to attend upon the examination of the Company's medical and naval servants. concluded, as he had before said, that the Directors would have the power, in a great degree, of regulating the education of the young men; but he was afraid there might be some misapprehension as to the effect of removing this compulsory clause. He thought, even though it were removed, that the right would still remain with the Directors, if they pleased, to compel the young men to go to a particular place, in the same way as had formerly been done. The removal of that clause did not take away from them the right of making a rule. They had formerly made a rule of this kind; they had found it inconvenient, and they broke it. They said to the young men, 66 you must all go to this seminary,' but, under particular circumstances, a certain number were sent out to India who did not comply with the rule. The Hon. Gent. concluded by stating that, although perhaps the motion was not exactly framed as be could have wished it, it should have his support, being satisfied that it must do some good, for hardly any system could be worse than that which at present existed. (Hear, hear!)

He

Mr. Bebb said many persons deprecated discussion in that Court relative to the colleges. The professors were averse to it: but he was not of that opinion, as he was convinced much benefit arose from