words or turn of phrase it may be expreffed, I fhall never think it incumbent upon me to yield my fituation, to desert or be diven from the ground upon which I stand in this country, to gratify the whim, the caprice, or unreasonable prejudices of one individual, whatever may be his fituation or his opinion of himself. But if in the prefent diftracted fituation of public affairs, brought on by the means ufed by the right honourable gentleman to obtain his fituation, I find that the public voice calls for my retirement, that I am in the opinion of the public at large, and in reality the obstacle to the formation of that ftable, extended, and united Adminiftration which the prefent diftractions require, God forbid that I fhould be the perfon to ftand in the way of fo great and neceffary a measure. I can appeal, Sir, to the uniform tenor of my life, if fuch a conduct be conformable to it. I can affure you, Sir, and the Houfe, that whenever it fhall appear to be the fenfe of the public that I am the obftacle, there is no love of power, no love of emolument, no object of ambition, that shall induce me to remain one moment the bar to fo great a public benefit, as a ftable, firm Administration, calculated to govern the country in its prefent arduous and critical fituation. But, Sir, it is to be judged how far I am the obftacle that ftands in the way of fuch arrangements. My right honourable friend near me (Mr Fox) has ftated the principle upon which he is ready to unite with the right honourable gentleman. He has ftated the conceffions he is ready to make in his bill for the government of India; he has ftated the ground and principle upon which they differ, that the right honourable gentleman muft fubmit to the dictates of this Houfe, before he can be united in principle with my right honourable friend. But has the right honourable gentleman fhewn any fpirit of conceffion. No, Sir, the right honourable gentleman chufes to declare, that he cannot act with me; but does he bend to the repeatedly declared opinion of the majority of this Houfe, that they can have no confidence in him; is he ready to fubmit to this branch of thie Legiflature, to vindicate the honour of the House to the true principles of this Conftitution. No. But in this day of conceffion for the benefit of the country, the right honourable gentleman avoids the conceffions which he owes to the Houfe of Commons, but ftates it as a matter of principle to exclude me. I am but a trifling object indeed, compared with the Conftitution of this country, and the honour, reputation, and dignity of this Houfe. Let the right honourable gentleman do what he ought to do to this House, and and it is of little comparative importance indeed what be- fham. The honourable Charles Marfham returned his most fincere The hon. and hearty thanks to the noble Lord, for the noble, upright, Char. Marpatriotic, and difinterefted conduct he this night difplayed, which would justly entitle him to the thanks of his country. The right honourable gentleman on the Treasury bench muft now be fenfible, he faid, that all the obstacle to a reunion rested with him. He was now called upon to refign in the manner pointed out by the right honourable gentleman over against him. Let him then refign; if he found that a treaty was afterwards practicable, then the union would of courfe Mr. Powys, Ld. Mahon. course take place; if on the other hand he fhould find difficulties relative to perfonal fituations, though now difclaimed, he might then refume his prefent employment; and upon ftating the grounds of difficulty to be with the gentlemen on the other fide, there was no doubt but he would receive ample fupport from the Houfe; but as matters now flood, it appeared to him impoffible that he fhould remain Minister any longer under the prefent circumftances. Mr. Powys paid his tribute of applaufe to the patriotic conduct of the noble Lord; for his private character he had already the greatest respect, and his fpeech this night did his public character the greatest honour. For his own part, he was not one of those who would infift upon fecluding the noble Lord from a fhare in a future Adminiftration; but fince he had himself fo difintereftedly and fo nobly expreffed a readiness to facrifice his own profpects to his country's good, he now confeffed that the fault would be the right honourable gentleman's, if he any longer refufed to pay to the House of Commons that deference due to a branch of the Legiflature. It gave him pain to fay it, but it was true, that, while his right honourable friend refufed to refign, after what the refolutions of the Houfe had declared, and what had been faid in the courfe of the prefent debate, he and his right honourable friend muft be two. His right honourable friend acknowledged that the confidence of the Houfe of Commons was neceffary to a Minifter; did he think that to refift that House of Commons was the way to gain its confidence? Was it not much more likely that he would gain it by facrificing his opinion to that of the Houfe, and acting in conformity to its wifhes? There was no doubt of this; and therefore he was of opinion, for one, that. his right honourable friend must refign. Lord Mahon faid, that his right honourable friend ought to refift the fenfe of the House of Commons, if by fo doing he could preserve the Conftitution. But the moment he saw the Conftitution was out of danger, then it would be criminal in him to oppofe the wishes of the Houfe; for he (Lord Mahon) was fo great a friend to the democracy of this gowernment, that, except for the purpose of faving the Conftitution, he would not fuffer prerogative to ftand in the way of the just rights of that Houfe. But when the Houfe claimed a power of naming Minifters, it deftroyed the Constitution; and that it affumed the right of nominating Minifters was very clear; for if the Houfe arrogated the right of negativing the King's appointment, and fo toties quoties, this would amount in fact to a direct appointment. Now, with refpect to the fafety of the Conftitution, he did not think it could be fecured until the India bill should be difpofed of; and when that should happen, and all the dangers that might arise from it adverted, then, but not before, he would advise his right honourable friend to refign. General Conway said, that the right honourable gentleman, Gen. Conat the head of the Treafury, had not yet given an explicit way. answer, though preffed even by his friend, a most respectable member, to declare then, whether or not he would refign. The noble Lord, it would feem, now put the refignation upon another event, and not upon the late refolutions of the House; and that was upon the fuccefs of the next India bill; which was as much as to fay, that if the House should differ from the right honourable gentleman on that head, then he would remain in office in fpite of the House. How this could be reconciled to decency or duty, he could not tell; but when he confidered the ftate of Europe, of our finances, revenues, and credit, and also the state of Ireland; and while Minifters remained in office under their prefent circumstances, as no one step could be taken respecting these great objects, he must fay it was difhoneft to remain in office, to the fufpenfion of all the great measures that these objects fo preffingly called for. Mr. Powys faid the honourable gentleman was mistaken; Mr. Powys. he did not prefs his right honourable friend to give an answer now; on the contrary, he wished him to take time to confider and to confult; and he made no doubt but his right honourable friend would give to the Houfe on Friday a moft fatisfactory anfwer, fuch as would meet the wishes of the whole House, to the refolutions that had been laid before His Majefty. Governor Johnstone condemned as abfurd, the wifh to Governor unite all the abilities of the Houfe, and yet to exclude from Johnstone. the union the noble Lord in the blue ribband, whose abilities were fo great and fo well known to the Houfe. He admitted the abilities of Mr. Fox to be great; he allowed him to be one of the greateft men in the world; but he was no greater than Julius Cæfar, who undid Rome. Oliver Cromwell also was a great man, and had led the House of Commons great lengths, but he overturned the Conftitution: this he thought would have been the effect of the right honourable gentleman's India bill if it had paffed, and it was prevented by the right honourable gentleman over the way; and · Mr. Pulte Dempster. and his continuance in office was no lefs neceffary, in order to prevent the bill from paffing in any other shape with any dangerous claufe in it, than his going into office, or confenting to do fo, had been neceffary to defeat the first India bill. He declared he had no prejudice to the right honourable gentleman; fo far from it, that if there was to be an election of a King in this country, he would moft cordially give him his vote: but he wished to preferve the Conftitution from that euthanefia, to which he thought his bill would have led it. Mr. Pulteney and Mr. Dempfter both fpoke: the former ney and Mr. thought the House of Commons, or at leaft a small majority of it, when not fupported by the people, to be no formidable body at all. The latter thought that the firft India bill would have been found lefs dangerons than the people imagined, if they were to look into the ftatute books, and fee what immenfe powers were vested in the Secretaries of State for the government of India; and when it was recollected what little ufe had been made of them, the House would not much regret the lofs of the fecond bill, which was for putting the controling power of India into nearly the same hands, where it had been fo greatly neglected before. Mr. Beau joy. Mr. Beaufoy fpoke to the following effect: After a debate fo interefting as that in which for the last two hours the Houfe has been engaged, I ought, perhaps, to apologife in rifing for a purpose, which yet, I believe, is not an unneceffary one; that of feconding the motion which a right honourable gentleman, who fpoke early in the day, has made; and though I differ from him effentially in all that he faid in the outfet of his speech, yet I am fo convinced not only of the truth, but of the great importance of the refolution he has recommended to the Houfe, that I cannot prevail on my felf to exprefs my affent to it merely by a filent vote. The refolution declares that the public revenue is defrauded to the extent of two millions a year. Of the truth of this affertion, thofe who have weighed the fpecific facts alledged in the report of your Committee, or who have examined the authentic papers contained in the Appendix, cannot entertain a doubt; and indeed the truth of it is fufficiently established by the opinion of the Commiffioners of Excife, that if the illicit trade were prevented, the prefent duties of the excife alone, on four articles only, thofe of tea, coffee, brandy and rum, would |