Sir William
Wake,

Mr Powys,

nifters, as the only means by which fuch a government might be formed, as all parties had unanimously voted to be neceffary with a view therefore to this, he moved the infertion of the following words, after the words "measures as" in the original motion: "by removing any obftacle to forming fuch an Administration as the Houfe has declared to be requifite in the prefent critical and arduous fituation of affairs." He was of opinion himself that a direct address to the King would be better than a resolution; but as the latter had been preferred by the right honourable mover, he would not attempt to alter it.

Mr. Minchin feconded the motion for the amendment; but it was merely with a nod, and without a speech.

Sir William Wake oppofed the motion generally: he faid that the tide of popularity unquestionably ran in favour of the right honourable gentleman at the head of the Ministry, though he would not say that there were not places, one of which he knew very well, where the public opinion was in favour of the late Adminiftration. The Houfe of Commons, indeed, was against the Minister; but what was a fmall majority of that Houfe, compared with the other two branches of the Legislature, and the voice of the people. The Houfe had paffed fome refolutions, injudiciously, in his opinion, and now made it a point of honour to adhere to them. A mistaken fenfe of dignity in the American war had nearly ruined this country; and it would be a fatal dignity indeed, if it fhould, on the prefent occafion, be productive of those mischiefs that might be apprehended from it.

Mr. Powys faid, that feeing by the countenances of gentlemen, that they wished to know his opinion on the amendment propofed by the right honourable gentleman, he would make no difficulty to gratify the Houfe on that head. He confeffed that the amendment did not appear to him at all neceffary, becaufe, as he faid before, he had the firmeft reliance that His Majefty would yet lend a favourable ear to the requests of the Houfe. He made no doubt but the right honourable gentleman, high in office, would avail himself of the delay of two days between this and Monday, to re-confider with his colleagues, the refolutions that the House had already laid before His Majefty; and he flattered himself that the answer would ftill be favourable. It was with this view, and not with an intention to refuse the supply, that he voted for poftponing the confideration from the Committee on the Ordnance estimates. But after having faid this, he was ready to declare, that if the right honourable gentleman preffed his amend

2

amendment, he would vote for it: he voted for the refolutions to which it referred, and he would not fhrink from any vote that he ever gave.

Mr. Banks thought himself bound in truth and in juftice Mr. Banks. to fay that he believed the motives of the honourable gentleman who moved the original question, were as pure as he described them to be; that he meant by voting to poftpone the fupply, not to refuse it ultimately; and that his motion this day was dictated by the pureft love for his country. But while the honourable member claimed to himself the merit of acting from the dictates of his judgement, he knew his candour would not fuffer him to arrogate that to himfelf which he was not willing to allow to another. With refpect to the question, as it had been originally moved, it did not strike him as he heard it read, that there was any thing in it that might be called objectionable, and therefore he probably might have voted for it, had it remained in that fhape; but fince the right honourable gentleman had moved an amendment, the nature of the question was materially altered; and whatever he might have thought himself bound, through confiftency, to give to the queftion in its firft shape, he could not hesitate for a moment relative to the vote he would give if the amendment should be carried. The Houfe would recollect that two refolutions had been laid before his Majefty, one of which most certainly paffed unanimoufly; but the other was carried only by a small majority; now the right honourable gentleman who moved the amendment, very ingeniously and dexterously engrafted the latter upon the former; in hopes, no doubt, that the House from having unanimoufly paffed a queftion, which in point of principle was the fame with one part of the amendment, might be induced to agree to another, which was taken from a refolution that had been opposed, and carried only by a finall majority. But the Houfe, he trufted, would make a due diftinction, and reject that part which had been opposed before, if it was expected that the other might be paffed now. The honourable member who opened the debate, touched upon three grounds on which he faid the unpopularity of the late Administration was founded. The receipt tax; the India bill; and the coalition. With refpect to the first, the honourable gentleman had asked if the prefent Minifters would wish to reft their popularity on the fupport they had given to the receipt tax; he would anfwer him, that the part which his right honourable friend took, (Mr. Pitt) when the tax was first propofed, was no fecret; he made no fecret of

Z 2

it;

it; he gave his opinion on it when it was firft opened; he fupported it openly in the face of the country, from which he never disguised it: it was clear, therefore, from this, that the popularity of the prefent Administration did not arife from an opinion now prevailing among the people, that his right honourable friend was an enemy to that tax, and that he would take the first opportunity to repeal it. The fecond point and ground of unpopularity to the late Ministry, ftated by the honourable gentleman, was the India bill, which unquestionably appeared to the public of a very alarming nature indeed; but the honourable gentleman faid the poifon had been extracted from it: the patronage which had been the greateft caufe of alarm was to be fo fettled, as to remove the objection to the bill arifing from that point. But how did the Houfe know this? Let the bill be first brought in, and then printed; the Houfe would then be able to judge how far that dreadful evil was removed; at prefent, it could not be expected that the Houfe would go the length of faying that now there was no objection on the score of patronage; that would indeed be premature, it would be time enough to make fuch a declaration, when the bill, in its new form, fhould have been printed and put into the hands of the members. For his own part, indeed, he would go fo far before hand, as to fay that if the article of patronage fhould be disposed of in fuch a manner as that it should not endanger the Conftitution, undoubtedly the principal objection that he had to the bill would be removed. As to the third point, the coalition, it certainly was not dead; it was ftill in full vigour; if the Chancellor of the Exchequer was to unite with it, he fhould only make himself a sharer in that unpopularity which attended the coalition; on that head he would afk one queftion, the answer to which would be applicable to his right honourable friend: the question was, would the right honourable gentleman declare, that if he had feen the unpopularity the coalition had fince drawn upon his head, he would nevertheless have formed it? If he anfwered in the affirmative, he would of course point out to his right honourable friend, that he ought not to think of coalefcing. The addreffes in Charles the Second's days need not have been mentioned, unless the addreffes of the prefent days had been to pray the King to restore those Ministers who had attempted to fhake the foundation of corporate bodies, and rob them of their charters! But the anecdote was certainly inapplicable on the prefent occafion, when the addreffes contained thanks for the difmiffion of Minifters who

had

had attempted to invade and trample upon chartered rights. With refpect to the motion, he faid before, that he objected ftrongly to the amendment; and therefore, if it should be carried, he would oppofe the whole motion fo amended.

fham.

The Hon. Charles Marfham declared, that notwitstanding The hon. the odious interpretation that had been put upon his con- Char. Marduct, when he voted for poftponing the fupply; he still maintained that he never meant to refuse it ultimately. He wanted only a fhort delay of forty-eight hours, to take breath, after the meffage which had been delivered by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the Houfe, and from which it appeared that the wishes of the House, contained in the resolutions that were laid before his Majefty, had as yet produced no effect. To have voted the fupply unconditionally after fuch a meffage, without explanation, and without taking any notice of it, would, in his opinion, have been a proceeding that would have sunk for ever the confequence of the House of Commons, and he was forry that a refpectable Baronet on the other fide of the way had spoken fo triflingly of the dignity of that Houfe, as to call it a "fatal dignity." : When the dignity of the House of Commons fhould once be deftroyed, there would be an end of its confequence in this country, and confequently there would be an end of its conftitution; for if the reprefentatives of the people were to be confidered as comparatively of less weight than the King and Lords in the Legislature, it would no longer be looked up to, and confequently would fall into contempt, and of course into disuse.

Sir William Wake faid, that he was very far from wifhing Sir Wm. to infult the dignity of the Houfe: he meant only to fay, Wake, that it was a miltaken fenfe of dignity that had plunged the House into the fupport of the measure of the American war; and when he reviewed all the difafters that this war brought and entailed upon the country, he could not help faying, that it was a fatal dignity to the kingdom. In this and in no other fenfe did he mean it; for no man could be more defirous to fupport the confequence of the House of Commons, without which this Conftitution could not be maintained. But when he confidered the fmallness of the majorities by which the different refolutions had been carried, he could not help repeating that fuch majorities were not of much weight, when compared to the two other branches of the Legislature, fupported by the opinion of the people at large.

Sir Horace Mann was extremely obliged to the honourable Sir Horace member, (Mr. Banks) for the very handfome and liberal Mann.

manner

Mr. H.
Dundas.

manner in which he did juftice to the character of his honourable friend (Mr. Powys) who was certainly a man above duplicicity, and would not fay he meant only to poftpone, if he intended wholly to refuse the fupply. He hoped the Houfe would think as favourably of himself; for though he held that the Houfe had not loft that conftitutional weapon of the Commons, the refufal of fupplies; ftill he wifhed not to employ it, except when abfolute neceffity called for it: the present was a crifis when the Houfe was called upon to make a spirited stand in defence of those privileges inherent in them by the Conftitution, and without which they would be a cypher in this country; but he hoped that what had already been done for poftponing, would render it unneceffary for the country to go any farther in that way. He hoped that vote, and the refolution then before the House, which he trufted would be carried, would roufe Minifters from their lethargy, and convince them that a Ministry could not ftand against the fenfe of the people. Various arts had been used to terrify numbers into a fupport of the prefent Ministers; the fword of diffolution had been fufpended over their heads, like the fword of the Sicilian tyrant; but though it had fome effect, ftill he rejoiced that a body fufficient to conftitute a majority, had remained firm and inflexible: and whatever might be his fate, for the conduct that he had held in this bufinefs, he would always efteem it as the principal honour of his life, to have belonged to a Parliament that had overturned two Administrations; and which the terrors even of diffolution did not move. Gentlemen had faid much about the fenfe of the people, which they ftated was to be collected from addreffes; for it was merely from the circumftance of addreffes, that the friends of the prefent Minifters affumed a right to fay they were popular in the country: as for addreffes, they never had much weight with him; he knew a bell-man had collected fignatures, without any meeting or difcuffion. But whether fairly or otherwife obtained, he muft unlearn all that he was taught about the Conftitution of this country, if he was to believe that the fenfe of the people of England was to be collected any where but in the Houfe of Commons. Addreffes and fpeeches might fpeak the language of individuals, but the collected voice of the nation, conftitutionally speaking, was to be learnt only within the walls of that Houfe.

Mr. H. Dundas wifhed to confider the refolution as an addrefs; and he also wished that the amendment might be put

and