paffed by them without any oppofition or delay. But he would not for a moment fuppofe that the House would pass a fhort Mutiny bill; he did not believe they would; nay, he would almoft venture to go fo far as to fay they would not. He was for going into the bill this day, because there was not a moment to be loft. If the adjournment moved by the right honourable member fhould take place, he was fure that the confideration of the Mutiny bill could not poffibly come on till Tuesday; and as the confideration of the account from the India Houfe ftood for that day, poffibly it might not come on till Wednesday. Surely then the Houfe did not wish to run the bill to a day, and to rifque the confe quences that muft neceffarily follow, if the bill should by any misfortune happen to mifcarry. In order therefore to avert thofe confequences as far as in him lay, he would oppofe the motion for adjourning the Committee on that bill. Lord North Lord North faid, it would not be an easy matter to convict either fide of the Houfe, of being the cause of the delay. The majority could not be charged with it, because no public bufiness had been brought forward that had been oppofed by them, except the Minifter's India bill, which had been fo properly rejected. For the delay of the fupply on the Ordnance eftimates, could not be interpreted to mean a determination to stop it, for the purpose of throwing impediments in the way of public bafinefs; the event proved the reverfe; for as foon as a measure was taken, which an answer from the Crown had appeared to the House to call for, was adopted, that Ordnance fupply was immediately voted; the delay was only forty-eight hours, and there was nothing preffing in the nature of that supply, which afforded ground for apprehenfion of the most distant idea of danger from a fhort delay. As to the navy estimates, the right honourable gentleman himself had put them off once; and when the Houfe was ready with one voice to vote them, he brought forward only a part of them, namely, the ordinary of the navy, but kept back the extraordi naries, when the House would have voted the whole without a fingle negative. To whom then was the delay imputable in the bufinefs, the important bufinefs of fupply? Surely not to the majority, who waited only forty-eight hours untill a previous step should have been taken, and then voted the Ordnance, but to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who put off the fupply for forty-eight hours, without affigning any reason, and who afterwards withheld a much greater part part of the navy fupply, than he brought forward, which remained to this moment unvoted, though the majority would have voted it with chearfulness, and had called twice for it, though hitherto in vain. With refpect to the delay of the great measures of finance and other important bufinefs, it refted entirely with the right honourable gentleman, because he had not fo much as attempted to bring forward any part of it. But this delay he would not impute to him as matter of blame, because standing in a situation the like of which no former Minister had ever experienced, standing with a majority not for him, but against him, it was not at all furprising that he fhould not be very forward to bring on public bufinefs, when he knew that he had not weight enough in the House to carry through the business that he might have to propofe. For these reasons he would excufe both fides of the Houfe of intentional delay; the one because they had not delayed bufinefs; the other, because they knew they were not in a fituation to do any thing, except one, which it was their duty, and in their power to do, to retire, from fituations which they knew they could not fill with advantage to the public. With refpect to the motion then before the Houfe, he was not at all furprifed that it was oppofed by the right honourable gentleman; for when he could not break the majority that was against him, it was natural enough that he should endeavour to degrade it, by making it adopt a manner of acting totally irreconcileable with confiftency. The Houfe had already laid it down twice as a rule, not to proceed to any other bufinefs of importance until the King's anfwer, which fo materially affected the privileges of the Houfe, had been previously taken into confideration. Had any reafon been affigned, which ought to have fuch weight with the Houfe as to induce it to depart, in the prefent cafe, from a rule already laid down in the two preceding cafes, perfectly fimilar in their nature? None, certainly, that he could fee; for as to what he had heard about the Mutiny bill, it had very little weight with him. In the firft place, he did not hesitate to say, that under all the prefent circumstances, the Houfe ought not to confent to any other than a fhort Mutiny bill; and he pledged himself to fecond any man who should move for it: this being premised, and fuppofing that the Houfe would adopt the propofition, then, if it fhould be rejected by the Lords, merely because it was a short bill, and the Commons would pass no other, then it was a matter of the utmost indifference whether it was was fent up to the Lords this day, or ten days hence. But he could not with patience hear it even infinuated that the Lords would attempt to alter a money bill; for in that cafe he would go fo far as to fay, that he would much sooner fuffer the Mutiny act to expire, than fuffer the Lords to alter a money bill, and confent that the Commons should afterwards agree to it. If that day should ever come, then not only this, but every future House of Commons, would be a mere cypher; for what gave the Commons their greateft weight was, that they have the exclufive right of originating money bills; which money bills muft afterwards be affented to in toto by the King and Lords, or rejected in toto; for if the Lords were once allowed to alter the bills, and tax the fubject beyond that degree marked out by the Commons, then the latter could no longer be faid to hold the public purse; at best it would then be a divifum imperium. He did not mean to fpeak of an alteration in its moft circumfcribed fenfe; but he meant an alteration in the quantum of money voted, or in the term for which it was to laft. Therefore he would fay, without any reserve, that if the Commons fhould pafs the Mutiny bill for one month, and the Lords fhould extend it to twelve months, fooner than fuffer fuch an encroachment upon the privileges of the Commons, which would be the forerunner of this degradation, he would let the Mutiny bill expire; because it were better that the army fhould be difbanded than that the conftitution of this country fhould be overturned. He defired, however, that he might not be understood to have the leaft idea of suffering the Mutiny act to expire. He was fure that there was not a man in the houfe who entertained it. He himself was feriously determined it fhould come on on Tuesday, at least he would vote for its being brought forward on that day; and though that he was of opinion that a fhort bill should pafs, in order that the Houfe might guard against a diffolution, he would affure the House that he did not mean to keep them fitting all the year, by means of short Mutiny bills: he wifhed only that the Houfe might have time to dispatch all the great bufinefs before them; and when that fhould have been done, he would not object to a long Mutiny bill, and diffolution; and he was convinced, that by this manner of acting, he should promote, and not delay the confideration of public affairs. For if the Houfe were not permitted to go through the business till May or June, it would be better for the country, and caufe a greater difpatch of business, than than if Parliament fhould be diffolved in April, and a new one called in June, to fit all July and Auguft. He faid he could not fit down without making fome remarks upon fome new doctrines, that he had this day, for the firft time in his life, heard laid down. It was faid that the King might, by his prerogative, keep the army together, even after the Mu tiny act had expired. This was a difcovery, which, if founded in a law, might well make men tremble for their liberty. Did those who maintained fuch a doctrine recollect the very firft claufe in every Mutiny act" Whereas a ftanding army in time of peace, without confent of Parliament, is contrary to law." Could prerogative exercise a power which had been declared by above one hundred acts of Parliament to be illegal? He could not conceive where fuch a doctrine had been difcovered. But, it might be faid, the army had already been voted, and the King might keep it together by martial law. Were gentlemen in earnest in advancing this propofition? Did not they know that an army could not be kept together without difcipline? and discipline must be maintained by the dread of punishment. But what punishment could be inflicted on a foldier but by law? How could any fentence affecting life or limb be carried into execution but by law? And when it was declared that a ftanding army, without confent of Parliament, in time of peace, was contrary to law, how could it be faid that there was a law for punishing foldiers for mutiny or desertion, if an army exifted in defiance of Parliament? But he would go farther, and fay, that if even the King, in time of war, by martial law had affembled an army, he could not punish military offences, but under the authority of a Mutiny act; for nothing fhort of a pofitive act of Parliament could take away the foldier's right, as a citizen, to be tried by his Pers. It had been faid, that the money had been voted for the payment of the army; but this was nothing to the purpofe; for in fact there was no right or power in Minifters to iffue any fum voted by Parliament, until the act appropriating that fum for the purpose for which it was voted fhould have paffed. It ought alfo to be remembered, that a prorogation or diffolution does away every vote of fupply, not carried into an act of Parliament before fuch prorogation or diffolution; and therefore, if the prefent Parliament fhould be diffolved or prorogued under the prefent circumftances, the votes of army, navy, ordnance, and fupply of every kind, muft neceffarily fall to the ground, Mr. Mr. Powys. Mr. Brooke The Earl of The Secre Mr. Powys faid, that though he knew the conduct of those who oppofed Minifters would be placed in the most invidious point of view, ftill he was refolved to do, what he conceived to be his duty to the public, and to the conftitution; and therefore he would vote for the adjournment of the order of the day. He wished to adhere to the rule which the Houfe had wifely adopted on two former occafions, which was not to proceed to any important business until the Houfe fhould have taken into confideration the King's answer. The laft received from His Majefty was an anfwer indeed! He wished therefore for time to paufe. He wifhed for time to fhed a tear over the expiring dignity of the House of Commons; for time to regulate the funeral proceffion of this Houfe of Commons. He lamented that Minifters were determined to continue their mad career, and fet prerogative above the privileges of the people. As to the Mutiny bill, he was fure no man had an intention to refufe to pass it: for what length of time would be a queftion. On that question he had an opinion, which he would not eafily be driven from; but which, in the prefent ftate of the bufinefs, he would not declare, because it was premature. Mr. Brooke Watfon reprobated delay in very ftrong terms; it had been, he faid, the ruin of this country; through delay the American war had failed; delay had been the cause of the failure of the action of the 27th of July. Delay in point of bufinefs, and in every point of view, was dangerous, and therefore he faid he would vote againft a motion, the fole object of which appeared to him to be delay. The Earl of Surrey faid, that the converfation upon the Mutiny bill naturally led him to ask a question about the Heffian troops now in this kingdom. He did not believe there was any evil defign in keeping them here; but ftill it was an object of jealoufy that foreign troops fhould be kept fo long in Great Britain. He wished therefore to be informed what was the reason for which they were kept here. The Secretary at War replied, that when the noble Lord Bary at War. knew, and confeffed that he believed that the Heffians had been kept merely from neceffity, it did not appear fo candid, that any doubt should be ftarted on a subject that would naturally excite jealousy among the people, though those who ftarted it knew there was no ground for jealoufy. The only reafon for which the Heffians had been kept was, that the Wefer was entirely frozen. The froft had not been broke up in this country above a fortnight, and during that 2 time |