of men, not known to them, and in whofe judgment and integrity no confidence could of course be repofed. He admitted, that he propofed the refolution of the 24th of December in a thin house: but that was not his fault; he did it not by furprife; nor with an intention to avail himself of the advantage which he might be fuppofed to derive from the abfence of the right honourable gentleman over against him, and of feveral other gentlemen, who having vacated their feats, by the acceptance of offices under the Crown, were gone to new elections. The nature of the cafe, and the then fituation of affairs, appeared to him to be fuch as to call for, and juftify the motion he then made. However, he would not enter any farther into the subject at prefent; it would be firft neceffary for the House to know what had been done by the Lords, relative to the refolution he had made; and therefore he moved, "That a Committee be appointed to examine the Journals of the Lords, and fee if any, and what proceedings had been had by them on the fubject of a refolution agreed to by this Houfe on the 24th of December laft, or any other refolution, and that they make a report to the Houfe."

Mr. Eden feconded the motion, but without making any fpeech.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer declared he had not the The Chanleaft objection to the noble Lord's motion. If he was defi- cellor of the Exchequer. rous to know whether any thing had been done in the House of Lords, founded on a refolution of this House, the mode his Lordship had adopted was certainly ftrictly parliamentary, and conformable to the practice of this Houfe. He did not mean to take any notice of what had been urged by the noble Lord in fupport of his refolution, because he did not wish to anticipate what might be the subject of debate on the report which the Committee now moved for might make. He meant fimply to obferve, that he by no means believed the noble Lord had it in contemplation to take advantage of the absence of several gentlemen in office, when he moved his refolution before the holidays; ftill it was very true, that it was paffed in their Houfe, when of courfe they had no opportunity to resist it.

Mr. Fox begged the right honourable gentleman would Mr. Fox. recollect, that the circumftance of his abfence ought not to be memtioned as a kind of oblique cenfure of the refolution moved by his noble friend; for fo far was the noble Lord from withing to take an unfair advantage of the right ho

L 2

nourable

nourable gentleman's abfence, that it was that very absence which made the refolution neceffary; for had he been then a member of that Houfe, and prefent, it was probable the refolution would not have been preffed upon the House, or fo much as moved; for the noble Lord would have put fome queftions to the right honourable gentleman, and if, in anfwer, he had affured the Houfe, that until their next meeting after the recefs the Lords of the Treafury would not confent to the acceptance of any bills drawn upon the East-India Company, there would have been no neceffity whatever for the refolution, and confequently it would not have been propofed. With refpect to the proceedings of the Lords yefterday, there was fomething in them which ftruck him as exceedingly fingular, and very well worth the attention of the Houte. The refolution which gave their Lordships to much offence was paffed on the 24th of December; the Lords, who conceived it to be a daring encroachment on the part of the Commons, and a violation of the Royal prerogative on one hand, and of the privileges of the Houfe of Peers on the other, met on the 20th of January; and yet, though they fat almost every day fince, they never once took notice of this bold attempt of the Commons till the 4th of February. Were the Lords indifferent, during all this interval, about their own rights, and thofe of the Crown? Or did any thing recently happen, which had ferved to awaken their fenfibility? Yes; for the Houfe of Commons had, on Tuesday, agreed to a motion for laying certain refolutions, which they had paffed, before his Majefty. The very next day, and not before, their Lordships procceded to take into confideration the refolution which the House of Commons had passed so long ago as the 24th of December laft: fo that before they thought of taking this daring, this illegal refolution into confideration, they waited until the Commons had agreed to a measure ftrictly legal, ftrictly conftitutional, and strictly parliamentary, namely, a measure for giving advice to the Crown. From this proccedure of the Lords, this curious and alarming leffon might be collected; that as long as the Houfe of Commons fhould agree in opinion with the Minifters of the Crown, fo long they might pass what refolutions they pleafed, unheeded by the Lords; but that they no fooner fhould differ, and advile the Crown to remove them, than the Lords would ftand forth their champions, and commence hoftilities against the House of Commons. For his own part, he had long fufpected, and the hiftory of the last three

weeks

weeks confirmed his fufpicions, that there was a plan in this country, a confpiracy to fink the confequence of the Houfe of Commons, and vilify them to their conftituents and to the world. There was a fettled defign fomewhere to render the Commons fubfervient to the will of the Crown, and confequently useless to the Conftitution. He remarked, that it was the conftant practice of Minifters, when they found themselves fupported by the Houfe of Commons, to exaggerate their power and their confequence: but when they happened to be in oppofition to Minifters, then they were cried down, then the prerogative of the Crown was mentioned in lofty ftrains, and the Lords were called upon to vindicate their right, which they were prompted to believe invaded by the exercise of the moft conftitutional powers of the House of Commons. Thus praised when they fupported Ministers, vilified and traduced when they opposed them, the Commons must at last be rendered contemptible in the eyes of the public, and confequently unfit for any one of the purposes for which they formed a branch of the Legislature. To render the Houfe of Commons contemptible, and confequently ufeiefs, was the obvious wifh and object of those who had entered into the confpiracy against it; the life of the Houfe of Commons was aimed at; of this, he declared upon his honour, he entertained not a doubt: and when he spoke of the House of Commons, he did not mean the House then fitting, but the House of Commons, in an abstract sense, as forming one of the three great bodies of the Legislature. If this was not the defign of the confpirators, would the world. have feen that phenomenon in this country, a Minister infulting the Houfe of Commons, by daily appearing on the Treasury-bench as a Minifter, after the House of Commons had declared they could place no confidence in him; and after they had laid before His Majefty their refolutions, by way of advice to the Crown, to remove him and his col leagues? And would the Houfe of Lords have been called upon to enter into refolutions against the House of Com→ mons, if there had not been a fettled defign to infult and trample upon them? Was it not known, that in His Majefty's cabinet there were not wanting thofe, who were not the warmest friends to the Constitution in its present form? Was it now known, that there were in high legal fituations in this country, perfons who held and avowed in public, principles the most abhorrent to the Conftitution? Could, then, the House reft at eafe under thefe circumftances? He

hoped

The Chancellor of the

Exchequer.

hoped they could not: but he hoped alfo, that they would proceed not only with temper and moderation, but with extreme temper and moderation. It imported much, that in the proceedings into which they muft go, they should not only be temperate, but that alío they fhould be in the right; for if they had of late done any thing that was wrong, it became their dignity, their honour, and their juftice; to recant their errors with all convenient speed, and to return to the right path of the Conftitution. If, on the other hand, it fhould turn out, upon enquiry, that they had acted hitherto with the Conftitution on their fide, it became them to be firm, and not furrender their own and their country's right to any power whatever. He would wait, therefore, for the refult of the enquiry, which was the object of his noble friend's motion, before he fhould fay any thing farther on the proceedings of the Houfe of Lords.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved, that the right honourable member might, if he pleafed, have recollected, that though the Houfe of Lords did not proceed till yesterday to take into confideration the refolution alluded to, yet the noble Earl, who introduced the bufine's yesterday to the Houfe of Lords, mentioned it foon after the recefs, if not on the very day their Lordships met after the holidays; and that there was no very good ground for the observations the right honourable gentleman had made on that part of the fubject. The right honourable gentleman had alfo taken notice, that though the Lords had taken no ftep to exprefs their difapprobation of the refolution in queftion, they did not fail to do it the very day after the Houfe of Commons had agreed to lay before His Majefty their advice to him to remove his Minifters. The Lords probably knew that His Majefty's prefent Minifters had had the uniform fupport of the Houfe of Commons ever fince the recefs, till yefterday; and if they did know this, (which no one in the world knew but themselves) there might be a foundation for the obfervation which the right honourable gentleman had made on that head but if it thould fo happen, that the Lords knew, that ever fince the prefent Minifters came into office, they found themfelves conftantly in a minority; and that refolutions, no less unpleasant to Minifters, had paffed on the 16th of January, than that which paffed on Wednesday last, he fhould really be at a lofs to difcover how the right honourable gentleman could think of building his obfervation on fo abfurd a foundation as that on which it actually ftood. Pret

ty much as well founded was the obfervation, that there was a confpiracy to deftroy the Houfe of Commons, and that there were even in his Majefty's Council fome persons, he knew not how many exceptions the right honourable gentleman might make, who were hoftile to the prefent Conftitution. There might poffibly be perfons fo credulous as to believe fuch an idle and obfurd obfervation, and to fuch perfons it would be in vain to say any thing. The right honourable gentleman, however, had gone fo far as to point out a learned Lord, high in a legal office, as a perfon who holds in public, principles the moft oppofite to the Conftitution. He wifhed the right honourable gentleman was lefs fond of general infinuation, and that he would be good-natured enough to remember fome of the expreffions of that learned Lord, on which he might be tried, on which he might defend him. felf. Until the right honourable gentleman fhould produce fome specific charge, he fhould not attempt to defend a character which ftood equally above cenfure and panegyric.

Mr. Fox replied, that there was a great affectation of fpi- Mr. Fox. rit in the right honourable gentleman, in challenging proofs, when he knew that from the offence no proof could be adduced. He alluded to doctrines laid down by that learned Lord in places, from which freedom of fpeech and of debate made it impoffible that proofs could be brought he spoke, therefore, only from what he and all the world has heard; but which was of fuch a nature, that while the man who could entertain fuch principles as those which he condemned ought to be looked upon as an enemy to the Conftitution, there was no way of bringing him to account for them. He fpoke, however, only from his own opinion. The doctrines which he had heard that learned Lord deliver, were such as appeared to him repugnant to every principle of the Conftitution. He was a man who difregarded the opinions of the Commons of England, and would render them, as far as in him lay, what they had been called in this House letter. Mr. H. Dundas faid it had been frequently infinuated, Mr H. that he had called the refolutions of the House a dead letter; but, in reality, he never called them by any fuch name. What had given rife to the infinuation was fimply this: when fome late refolutions were propofed, he argued upon them, as if addreffes were to be afterwards grounded upon them; and in order to deter gentlemen from voting for them in the first inftance, left they should be led afterwards to addreffes,

a dead

Dundas.