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Mr. Fox.

Lord Beau. champ.

Mr. Dempfter.

tended to purfue; and certainly fuch information should be given. Refpecting the report from the Committee on the estimates, he would obferve, that the House was not then full enough to debate fo ferious a question as whether the supply should be stopped. He would, therefore, after the report fhould be received, move that it be re-committed to-morrow, and the Houfe might afterwards receive the report on Thursday.

Mr. Fox obferved, that if by stopping the supply, the right honourable gentleman meant refufing a fupply, he would tell him that nothing was farther from his intention: ,but if by stopping he meant fufpending, he would tell him he thought that the Houfe ought to suspend it until His Majefty's intentions fhould be known.

Lord Beauchamp faid that he was already in poffeffion of the House for to-morrow, as he had given notice of an intention to move on this day fome refolutions, which the attack upon the privileges of the Commons by the House of Lords rendered abfolutely neceffary. As to the eftimates, he had ftrong exceptions to give, as they were founded on a fyftem of defence totally new in this country, namely, a fyftem of defending the coaft by fortifications, which, in his opinion, would caufe to be neglected the defence of the country, the navy. But if the works were ever fo neceffary, the fervice could not suffer from a fhort delay at prefent, before the estimates should be taken into confideration, becaufe the works could not be carried on at this season of the year.

After a tedious converfation, it was at last agreed that the report fhould be re-committed to-morrow, and that Lord Beauchamp's refolutions fhould be propofed on Thursday.

Mr. Dempfter concluded the converfation by obferving, that ever fince the Revolution, a principle had obtained in this country, which had made the public bufiness go on fmoothly, and without interruption: it was a principle of moderation which had prevented the prerogative of the Crown, and the privileges of the Houfe of Commons, from being brought into collifion. If the Crown and people fhould ever be engaged in a struggle between prerogative and privilege, he, as one of the people, would have no difficulty to determine which fide to take; but his mind looked forward with horror to the event.

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February

February 11.

Mr. Eden rofe to make a report from the Committee which Mr. Eden. is appointed to take into confideration the frauds which are daily taking place in the revenue. In doing this he referred to an expreffion he had dropped on a former occafion. He had then called the prefent Miniftry a nominal Ministry, which he thought ftill no improper appellation, for men who flood merely on the footing of a fimple nomination from the Crown, but which nomination could not render them an efficient Miniftry. The right honourable gentleman had denied the propriety of the term, but it ftruck him as not in the leaft affected by that commentary. The only way, in his opinion, to fhew that it was a mifnomer, would be to fhew that the prefent Miniftry is fomething more in reality than a name. He would not pay the House fo poor a compliment as to fuppofe they could poffibly fee His Majefty's fervants in a light more refpectable. He would only remind them in proof of the dreadful fituation to which their obstinate remaining in place had reduced this country. The state of India, of public credit, of our commerce, especially with America, and of our connection with foreign powers, were fo many demonftrations that the government of this country was a weak, an imperfect one; and to him it appeared peculiarly neceffary at this time, that we should have a strong, an energetic, and indefatigable government. Every thing connected with public affairs pointed to the fame object, and fenfibly augmented the preffure which the people at large, which the House of Commons, and which individuals for themselves felt on this important crifis. He fincerely and earnestly wished gentlemen would confider the queftion coolly and thoroughly, as the most momentous and interefting that ever occupied the minds of Englishmen. How long were the affairs of a great commercial nation to exift under their prefent derangement? The Committee on which he fat were daily convinced more and more how indispensable fuch an Adminiftration was now become, in order to prevent the ruin of the revenue.. It had already come out in the course of their enquiry, that not lefs than two millions fterling, were annually loft by a connivance with, or inattention to this great object. The evidence for this eftimate might be demanded - It was large, multifarious, and

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involved

Mr. Chan

cellor Pitt.

Mr. Huffey

involved - Such as it was, however, the Committee had examined, or were examining, and ready to produce. The articles of which it confifted were uumerous, and when brought forward would undoubtedly fill the House with astonishment. In the mean time he should not encroach more on the time which had been allotted for other bufinefs, but content himself with fimply ftating this refolution"That it appears to this Committee, that the illicit practices used in defrauding the revenue have increased in a moft alarming degree; that thofe practices are carried on upon the coafts and in other parts of this kingdom, with a violence and with outrages which not only threaten the deftruction of the revenue, but are highly injurious to regular commerce and fair trade, very pernicious to the manners and morals of the people, and an interruption of all good government; that the more fecret illicit practices in the internal excife of this kingdom have alfo greatly increafed; that, the public revenue is defrauded to an extent of not less than two millions per annum; and that these enormities and great national loffes well deferve the earliest and most serious attention of Parliament."

Mr. Chancellor Pitt faid, he did not by any means whatever rife to controvert fo plain a propofition, as had been just stated by the honourable gentleman. Much lefs had he any inclination to enter into a critical difcuffion with him on what ideas he meant to affix to the word nominal. These verbal fort of nicities he would leave for the honourable gentleman to fettle as he could in the firft political dictionary he fhould publifh for the use of his party. He only wished the Houfe to understand or be made fenfible, how neceffary it was at this time to bring forward the bufinefs of the public; and in the courfe of that business the honourable gentleman would have an opportunity of fpaking more at large, on the feveral points to which he had alluded; and when that opportunity offered, he trufted he should find him ready to meet him; but in his mind the prefent was not the period for entering into a debate on those grounds.

Mr. Huffey, wifhed juft to fay a few words on the fubject now ftarted. He had fat on that Committee, and could vouch for the truth of what fell from the honourable gentleman. The fraudulent practices which had come under the inspection of gentlemen were incredible and enor

mous.

mous. Exceffes had crept in which it became Government to fupprefs. In every thing abufes multiplied. To remedy this glaring and fatal evil, an efficient and united Administration could no longer be deferred with any profpect of relief or even of falvation to the country. The right honourable gentleman (Mr. Pitt) in his eye, he trufted very fincerely, would not let any obftacle, which he had power to remove, ftand in the way of bringing matters to an iffue. He hoped the fame complying and accommodating difpofition from the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Fox) on his fide of the houfe. Much and laudably as a very refpectable body of the Houfe had laboured to effect this object, it was ftill at a distance. He most ardently wished gentlemen on both fides would, by fuch conceffions as they could make, cordially and manfully give way, not to each other only, but to the calls and exigencies of their country; which, while they were contending, felt the confequences to its vitals. An honourable gentleman in his eye (Mr. Marsham) who filled the chair in the meeting to which he alluded with exemplary propriety, he trusted would read to the House the refolution to which they had that day come; and he wished the Houfe might ferioufly attend to it.

Charles

The honourable Charles Marsham thought it by no means The Hon. agreeable to be called upon in a manner fo very explicit, Marfham. but disagreeable as it was, coming from so very refpectable a member as the honourable gentleman, he deemed it his duty to comply. He then expreffed what he thought to be the cordial, the unanimous, and the genuine fenfe of the gentlemen who met at the St. Alban's. They were earneft and ardent in defiring a union of all the virtues and abilities which the country poffeffed, in order to effect fomething like an adequate remedy against the various evils under which it laboured. No man had a higher idea of both the two right honourable gentlemen (Mr. Fox and Mr. Pitt) oppofite to each other than he had. Their principles, their virtues, and their abilities were in his opinion great, and might do honour to any government in which they could cordially unite. This was the govern. ment in which the wishes he trufted, of the whole house, the whole nation, and every one who entertained any regard for the conftitution moft undoubtedly centered; and to fuch an idea all the refolutions which the meeting at the

St.

Mr. Fox.

St. Alban's had yet formed were directed; and none more than the laft, which had been then fo particularly called for by the honourable gentleman who spoke laft, and to every word of whofe fpeech he gave his moft cordial and unreferved approbation. He then read the refolution which was fomething to this effect: "That an Administration, founded on the total exclufion of the members of the last, or of the prefent Administration would be inadequate to the exigencies of the public affairs."

Mr. Fox rofe vifibly impreffed with the fame ideas which had been urged by the former fpeakers concerning a general and fubftantial union of parties. The defire, in his opinion, which went to this capital object, was as laudable as it was general, and what little countenance it could derive from him, he would give it openly, completely, and unequivocally. It was obvious there could, at leaft on his part, be no perfonal animofity or fpleer which might be thought operating to that effect in the leaft. He had been generally, and especially of late, rather too apt to give way where any thing like perfonalities fubfifted; and he trufted it would not be imagined his mind could be lefs yielding, where there never was nor ever could be any fuch thingIf there were, and thofe of a more palpable and irreconcileable nature than any thing he could imagine, this was not a time to cherish or indulge them-Duty to the community at large, demanded every facrifice which a man of honour and of principle could poffibly make This was not a period that admitted of any adjustment that related to the little punctilios of perfonal importance, and he trusted every public man, who feriously felt the increafing preffure of public affairs, would think as he did. He would not now infift on the various neceffities which urged from every quarter fome decifive and immediate remedy. The news which had fo lately arrived of a final adjustment between the Empress of Ruffia and the Porte was an object of great confequence. He would not difcufs at this time the policy which he forefaw it might produce; but it required no great difcernment to fee that it would go a great way to fixing the confequence of this, country in the fcale of Europe. Our connection with foreign courts confequently held forth a most important object of political attention to us, which required a management to which the confidence of this Houfe was effential; and which, actording as we acquitted ourselves, might be productive

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