Mr. Gardiner replied, that he had no objection to meet the wifhes of the Hon. Baronet, in that refpect; but had the Hon. Baronet been prefent, at the examination of this evidence, he would find that the publication of a fubject fo complicated and defultory, could not tend to any ufeful purpose. The whole formed an oli of extraneous matter, and numerous, which to understand properly, it was neceffary to decompofe. As to the report of digefted evidence, it was neither new or uncommon; it had long been the practice of England, and a cafe lately occurred in point, as would appear from the preamble of the report, made from the comn ittee appointed to enquire into the fmuggling abufes. The very difference of idea entertained by the parliament of England, in refpect to the balance of trade between both nations, could not be conciliated by fuch publication. Some part of the evidence was explanatory of commercial ufages between Ireland and other countries, which it would be prejudicial to the kingdom to make public. But this did not preclude gentlemen from having recourfe to the evidence as delivered in, and reading the whole. It was under this idea, of its being imprudent to publish the whole, that he took leave to fuggeft to the committee the digefting of the evidence, and to report it in that form. It was not, he faid, to be supposed that the evidence delivered to the committee was taken down verbatim & literatim; it was not done in any committee, though when a committee reports, the Houfe has an implicit reliance on that report. On his own part, he did not care if the whole evidence was puplifhed in the moft ftaring capitals, if he did not think that the publication of fome things would be productive of a national injury. He declared, with an honeft warmth, he did not want to digeft, in order to conceal the truth. He would not have it fuggefted, that he endeavoured to prevent any gentleman from reading the whole of the evidence, or that he wifhed to fupprefs any part of it; he only meant to serve his

country.

Sir Lucius O'Brien bore the most honourable teftimony to the integrity and abilities of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and was certain that all his exertions were directed to the fervice of his country; but he only wifhed for a fpecial report. He confidered it as a former practice to digeft the evidence, but on being much complained of was difcontinued.

Mr. Griffith acknowledged that many thanks were due to the Right Hon. Gentleman, for his laborious inveftigation of this important bufinefs; but he was of opinion, that the whole of the evidence thould be published.

Here Mr. Garainer faid, he never imagined fo voluminous a work would be called for.

Mr. Griffit faid, he had read what was taken down by the committee before the recefs, and he could fee nothing in it, the

publication of which might hurt the trade of the kingdom. He believed the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, had made a motion to have it printed before the recefs, and he could not conceive the reafon for the present alteration of that opinion.

The Right Hon. Thomas Conolly alfo acknowledged the many obligations which this country owed to the indefatigable labours of Mr. Gardiner; but he was certain protecting duties would never answer any good purpose. What was the confequence, he faid, at the time a non-importation was agreed to? Four fhillings a yard was paid for home-made cloths, more than cloth of a fimilar quality could be had for in England. Add to this, that it would deftroy an old branch of trade, now well eftablished, which had brought millions into this country; for if the English were provoked, by this meafure, to withdraw their bounties on Irish linens, that trade would fink into immediate ruin. Honefty, he faid, was the best policy, and he withed to flick to the old trade we had fo long enjoyed.

Right Hon. Mr. Gardiner apologized for fpeaking again, but faid that as the House fometimes indulged converfations of this kind, he would beg leave to add one word to what he had faid. In the courfe of the committees inquiry, various subjects had been laid before them, the woollen, the cotton, and almost every other branch of manufacture. Now, as gentlemen entertained opinions, various on almoft each of thefe manufactures, it would be but juft to feparate the manufactures themselves in the committees report, and let each ftand on the ground of its own merit. Befides, the fubject of reftraining the export of the raw materials had alfo come before the committee-this ought, in the report to be kept a diftinct bufinefs, for if fo many dif ferents matters were to be blended together, it would combine against the whole gentlemen, who might difapprove of any particular one.

Right Hon. Mr. Brownlow highly approved of what had been faid by the Right Hon. Gentleman, on whofe ability and integrity, for his own part, he was well content to rely, and, thought that the Houfe might with great fafety truft to the committee; who, by their clofe inveftigation of the fubject, had proved themfelves fo worthy of confidence.

The Speaker having declared that there was no queftion before the Houfe,

Sir John Parnell begged the attention of the House to a circumftance important in itielf, and as it involved the character of an Hon. Gentleman, whofe noble and amiable conduct had rendered him the object of general efteem, claiming precedence to any other. Sir for then informed the Houfe, that Mr. Ogle having been called upon to give teftimony before the committee appointed to try the Enniscorthy election, had, after making every apo

logy, and declaring every degree of refpect to the committee, declined taking the oath, alledging, that fhould he take it, he might be examined to a circumftance of fifteen years standing, which he was bound in honour not to difclofe; that he confidered a promife on honour as a most binding moral obligation, and that he begged to fubmit his cafe to the House. Sir John added, that the petitioner, not fatisfied with this excufe, had adduced the cafe of Mr. Oliver of the county of Tipperary, whom the House had obliged to take the oath under fimilar circumstances.

Mr. Ogle. The Houfe will think I ought to fay fomething on this occafion, and I confefs I ought, if it were only to thank my Hon. Friend for the kind manner in which he has brought it forward. I did refufe to take the oath, fuppofing that under the influence of it I might be preffed to reveal circumftances confided to me under the bond of honour; I look upon private confidence as the great tie of fociety, which none but the most base of mankind will violate. I therefore appeal to this affembly, as to a court of honour, where every member will feel for my fituation, and will judge of it by his own heart. If there can be a poffible juftification for violating private confidence, it must be after having made the laft appeal. I appeal now to this affembly, if I knew another at the fartheft verge of the earth that could better juftify me, I would carry my appeal thither. And now let me fay, if it fhall appear neceffary to the wifdom, the justice, and the honour of the Houfe, that private confidence must be facrificed-if it is a misfortune which cannot be avoided-the act is yours, let it not hereafter be imputed to me. I do but obey your order.

To you I bave made my last appeal,

"My hands are guilty, but my heart is free."

Mr. Ogle here fat down, but rofe immediately, and said—I am fo agitated that I forgot to state to the House, that the tranfaction of which I have any knowledge is of fifteen years standing, and I think cannot have any reference to the petition before the committee.

The Attorney General.-I believe there can be no doubt that the Hon. Gentleman must deliver his teftimony before the committee in the ufual manner. The law allows no man to withhold evidence, except men who, from the nature of their profeffion, muft neceffarily be entrusted. But if any queftion should be put to the Hon. Gentleman, not relative to the bufinefs before the committee, the Hon. Gentleman will know, and every member of the committee will know, that fuch queftions ought not to be answered, for no man has a right, under pretence of evidence to any point, to draw from me any fecret not relative to that point. The cafe of Mr. Oliver does not apply, for he was examined touching a pecuniary bargain connected with the elec

tion, then trying by the committee before whom he was examined. Upon the whole, I would advise the Hon. Gentleman to be fworn, and that upon the principle that he is bound in point of law to give evidence to the matter before the committee, but that he cannot be compelled to reveal any thing not relative thereto.

Mr. Ogle rofe again, expreffed his obligation to the Attorney General, and his firm reliance on his opinion; but called upon the House, and entreated, that if there was a fingle gentleman who thought differently, he would now declare his diffent.[Here he waited fome moments, and there being no answer.] I have put, fays, my honour into your hands, and now shall act by your advice, and with your approbation.

Sir Lucius O'Brien called the attention of the House to the ftate of the poor, labouring under all the horrors of fcarcity, nay, almoft famine. He knew of none but three measures which the Houfe could take to remedy this evil.-To prohibit the dif tillery of grain, to prevent the exportation, and to encourage the importation thereof.-For thefe purposes a fhort bill, fuch as he had formerly brought in, he thought would be neceffary, but as fome time would be taken up in paffing it, he thought a refolution of the Houfe would have a more immediate effect. The greateft quantity of grain, he faid, was confumed by illegal ftills, but when the opinion of the House should be once declared by a refolution, he trufted that the gentlemen who had taken up arms for the defence of their country, would now exert themselves to preferve their fellow creatures from famine, by putting an entire stop to the clandeftine diftillery,

Right Hon, Mr. Beresford faid, he would not oppose the Hon. Gentleman in bringing in a bill, though fuch a refolution, he faid, would only tend to the deftruction of the revenue, as it would prevent and difcontinue the payment of duty without puting the fmalleft ftop to the diftilling. Every man, he said, knew that it was an act which had been brought in by the Hon. Baronet which first raised the clandeftine diftillery to its prefent enor mous height; for when people had got once into the habit of working their ftills without paying duty, it became almost an impoffibility to make them obedient to thofe laws which were intended to enforce the payment of duty.

Right Hon. John ofter was of opinion that the mere bringing in of the bill, though it fhould never pafs, would increase the evil which it profeffed an intention of removing, for it would operate as a notice to fet all the diftilleries in the kingdom at work as hard as poflible.

It was then ordered, That leave be given to bring in a bill to ftop the diftilling of corn and grain in this kingdom for a limited

time; and that Sir Lucius O'Brien and Mr. Montgomery (of Donegal) do prepare and bring in the fame.

Ordered, That leave be given to bring in a bill to prevent the exportation of corn and grain, and to allow the importation of corn for a limited time; and that Sir Lucius O'Brien and Sir Edward Crofton do prepare and bring in the fame.

A petition of the merchants, traders and principal inhabitants of the town of Belfaft, was prefented to the House and read, fetting forth that petitioners had read a copy of a bill for regulating the corn trade, and that from the mode therein proposed for afcertaining the prices of grain in Dublin, by ftriking an average of the whole kingdom, petitioners are convinced faid bill, if paffed into a law, will not operate, as intended, to provide a regular and steady supply of corn in this country, but will, on the contrary, place the manufacturing and labouring poor in the north of Ireland in a much worse fituation than under the prefent laws, and effectually deter merchants from ordering grain from any foreign port. That in Great Britain no fuch mode has been adopted, but in whatever diftrict prices are high the ports are opened, and where moderate the ports are fhut; a regulation the utility of which long experience has evinced, and which therefore petitioners recommend to the attention of the House. That petitioners reprefent, that though a merchant may be well acquainted with the ftate of the harveft, and the fupply of grain in the county in which he lives, yet no man can obtain fo univerfal a knowledge of the whole kingdom as to afford him rational grounds to conclude that the average of the whole may be fuch as to open the ports in time for him to fell his cargo, thould he order one, before the enfuing harveft; for it is not publishing once a week in the Gazette the prices of every county, that can give this knowledge as the quantity of the grain may be great even when the prices are high, and that the price is no certain rule to judge of the quantity on hand, until the approach of harveft. That it is a wellknown fact that in general grain is much dearer in the north than in the fouth of Ireland, infomuch that in times of fcarcity the poor in feveral of the northern counties would be abfolutely perishing before the average prices of the whole kingdom would amount fo high as to admit importation from foreign places. That from the experience of last year, as well as of former times, it has been clearly proved that in a fcarce year the prices of grain may at one quarter-day be under the rates fixed by the bill for permitting importation, and yet may far exceed them in two or three weeks after, and under fuch encreafing diftrefs no remedy is provided for the long space of three months by the bill now pending;and fuggefting to the Houfe that the perfons appointed by the feveral grand juries to make weekly returns of the prices of grain