I saw.

Sir, it was my intention to propose a vote of thanks to you. I do not propose that vote of thanks, because it has been done. But I desire to express to you my great obligations for giving me such a capital resumè of what you saw at Chicago and what I do not mind telling you, gentlemen, that I came over to this country to steal all I could, and I intend to go back and make use of all I have learned, and one thing I certainly shall do, I shall make free use of your ideas, sir, and in the report I make to the Institution of Electrical Engineers, and in the reports that I make to her Majesty's government of what I have done and seen here, I shall certainly refer to the address delivered to this INSTITUTE, and also to the good work that has been done by this INSTITUTE, membership in which I feel such a pride of holding. [Applause.]

There is just one point that I wish to refer to.

Your President alluded to the fact of the work left undone. He said that I was prepared to carry on that work in England, as your honorary member, and I shall do so, not alone because I am an honorary member of this INSTITUTE, but because I am deeply interested in the adoption by the electrical fraternity of a unit, not of light, but of illumination. I want to know what is the light on that paper. I do not care a button where it comes from. It may be gas, or a candle, or the sun, or the moon. We want to be able to express in something that we understand as clearly as we understand the ohm, the ampere or the henry; we want to express exactly what is the illumination on that paper; and therefore it is that I support for that purpose with all my power the proposal of your President, for the establishment of a committee to deal with this matter. We will work at it very hard in England and I hope that we shall be able to do something to enable you to come to a decision.

Will

THE PRESIDENT:-Gentlemen, the hour is running on. you take any action in this matter? There is really no motion before the INSTITUTE. I think the INSTITUTE can do very excellent work in this connection.

MR. F. W. JONES:-I move Mr. President, that the Chair be authorized to appoint a committee to carry out the suggestions made in the Inaugural Address of the President.

[The motion was carried, and the Chair subsequently appointed Mr. A. E. Kennelly, Dr. Wm. E. Geyer and Mr. Carl Hering.]

MR. STEINMETZ:-I would like to say a few words on a matter that has been considered several times here, viz.: the establishment of local branches or chapters of the INSTITUTE. I wish to sound the sentiment of the INSTITUTE about the establishment of a chapter in Lynn.

As you know, there is an electrical organization there, having something like 70 or 90 members, and about the same tendency as our INSTITUTE here. At the last meeting of this organizationthe Thomson Scientific Club-the question was brought up

whether it would be advisable to join hands with the AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS. No definite action was taken, but I was instructed to ascertain the state of feeling here in New York. The main reason was and is, undoubtedly, the rapidly increasing influence and importance of this INSTITUTE as displayed during the time of the Electrical Congress in Chicago, and as expressed in the scientific papers published in the TRANSACTIONS of the INSTITUTE. We knew that this question had been discussed here by the INSTITUTE frequently, and that, as I believe, the general sentiment was towards the establishment of such chapters.

Now I should like to hear what the members think about this question, and how they would stand if the proposition to unite with the INSTITUTE were brought up by the Thomson Scientific Club of Lynn. Our idea was, that some kind of an arrangement could be made so that election to membership would take place in the same manner as before, by the Council of the INSTITUTE; that the local chapter would have the right to elect local members, which would have full vote on all local matters, but have novote on general mattters, and that at the time of consolidation, the members of the local organization who are not members of the INSTITUTE, become local members.

In Lynn out of 70 or 80 members of the local organization there are about ten or fifteen members of the INSTITUTE, and the cause for this small percentage is that the tendency of the local organization is about the same on a smaller scale as that of the INSTITUTE. Most of the electrical engineers there think it their duty to build up the local organization, and they do not care to be members of the two organizations, and therefore do not become members of the INSTITUTE, but now that it has reached such importance, they would like to be members of it without giving up their local organization.

Furthermore I think there would be no difficulty in having papers read before the local organization printed in the TRANSACTIONS under the same conditions as they are now printed, i. e. that the author of a paper sends it in for acceptance a sufficient time before the meeting to have the advance copies printed, or in other words that members of the INSTITUTE have the right to read their paper before the local branch, instead of before the general organization; or where it is desirable, to read the paper personally at the one, and by proxy at the other meeting. I would like to hear from the members what their opinion would be upon such a proposition.

MR. HAMMER: I would suggest that, as this same question. has recently come up in connection with the city of Cincinnati, the city of Philadelphia, and the city of Chicago, the Thomson Scientific Club be requested to send a report, embodying their views, to the Council, and have it taken up in connection with these other applications, and then have the Council submit the matter for the approval of the INSTITUTE.

THE PRESIDENT :-I think that is a very sensible suggestion. THE SECRETARY:-As I told the gentlemen at Chicago, we could not force them to hold meetings, and we could not prevent their holding meetings if they wished to. We have the opinions of single individuals as to what they thought they could do. But we have not as yet had any united request from any number of members that would signify that they wished to hold meetings. In Lynn we have about twenty members. The proper procedure would be for them to draw up a proposition, signed by enough names to give it weight and then send it to the Council, when it can be taken up and considered.

MR. STEINMETZ:-I would not recommend the INSTITUTE to take any action at present. My object was first to present the matter and see how its members would regard such a proposition.

[Adjourned.]

EMERY ON COST OF STEAM AND WATER POWER.

[See page 119, ante.]

[COMMUNICATED DISCUSSION BY L. B. STILLWELL.]

I have read Dr. Emery's paper on the cost of steam power, with supplement relating to water power, with great interest. The figures which he presents-coming from a man of such undoubted ability and wide experience-are of the utmost value to all who are interested in the cost of power, and to none are they of greater interest than to those who at the present time are called upon to advise with reference to the installation of plants for the utilization of water power by electric transmission.

The tables which Dr. Emery has prepared, representing results obtainable in approved steam engineering practice, supply the engineer who is designing an hydraulic and electric transmission plant with data concerning the cost of operation of a possible competing steam plant, more complete and more carefully analyzed, perhaps, than any that had been published up to the time when Dr. Emery's paper was read. It goes without saying that no transmission plant should be installed without a careful comparison of the annual charges against such a plant with the annual charges against a steam plant located where the motors are to be located, and doing the same work; but reliable information regarding the proper annual charges against such a steam plant have been very difficult to procure. I am sure that Dr. Emery's paper will be frequently consulted by those who may have occasion to consider proposed installations for the transmission of power.

In presenting a paper so comprehensive in scope, and dealing with a subject so complex, Dr. Emery has made no attempt to be perfectly general, and has confined himself within the limits of average conditions as regards cost of fuel, wages, interest upon investment, etc. For example, he makes no calculations based upon the use of coal costing more than $5 per ton, nor less than $1 per ton. There are, of course, many places-especially in the west-where good coal cannot be purchased for $5 per ton; and, on the other hand, there are perhaps, other localities where a fair quality can be procured for less than $1 per ton. The limits which he has assumed, however, are fairly stated, and the method is so clearly indicated that corrections for peculiar local conditions can be readily made.

As a starting point in the preparation of his paper Dr. Emery has assumed a unit of 500 H. P. delivered at a speed of 250 to 350 R. P. M. corresponding to the jack-shaft speed of slow engines. "and the actual speed of high speed engines," and in his discussion of the subject of water power he still keeps the jack-shaft in

view. Of course a comparison such as this, based upon a special kind of service, and limited to large units, altogether leaves out of consideration some of the most marked advantages of electric transmission. It does not apply in the least to those cases in which transmission is combined with distribution of power; that is to say, where the energy is transmitted from water power across country to a secondary station, conveniently located as regards the market, and thence distributed to motors, large and small, supplying power for the manifold work of a city or town. It applies only to those cases where we have transmission "in block," and even in these, the conditions assumed are such as impose serious disadvantage upon the plant utilizing water power by means of electricity.

It is, I think, pertinent to the discussion of Dr. Emery's paper to point out briefly wherein the transmission plant will in general compare much more favorably with the steam plant than would be inferred from a casual reading of the supplement wherein he touches upon the subject.

Dr. Emery finds that at Lawrence the general hydraulic plant, exclusive of turbines and hydraulic connections from the high canals to the lower levels, has cost about $77 per horse power, and that the expense at Lowell has been even greater. He states that in addition to this, the mill owners have expended for turbines and connections an average of $65 per horse power for the average power utilized. This makes the total cost of developing water power on the Merrimac about $142 per horse power, which Dr. Emery says "is about the limit of cost at which water power "can be developed in competition with steam." He estimates the annual charges upon such an hydraulic plant as follows:

Seventeen per cent. upon an investment of $140 represents $23.80 per horse power, or "about the same as shown in the tables "with economical engines and coal between $2 and $3 per ton." In this way he arrives at the conclusion that "the highest allow"able cost for the complete development of water power from "the dam to the jack-shaft appears to be about $140 per horse "power, utilized on a ten-hour basis," and a little farther on he

says:

"When the power of a waterfall is to be delivered at a "distance, the allowable cost of actually developing the power "must be decreased by that necessary to transmit the power and "actually deliver it to a jack-shaft at a given distance. An "electric transmission is undoubtedly the most economical for "such a purpose. If we add to the cost of the electric dynamos