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Your Lordships are therefore moved to refuse hoc statu the desire of the defender, that he may produce the documents tendered, as evidence in causa ; and farther, to appoint the defender to be judicially examined, relative to these documents; or to do otherwise in the premises as to your Lordships shall seem just.
DEFENDER in the Action of REDUCTION-IMPRO
BATION, &c. The OFFICERS OF STATE,
ALEXANDER, calling himself Earl or STIRLING.
At Edinburgh, in the Second Division of the Court of Session, on the 18th day of December, 1838, in pursuance of an interlocutory order of the Lords made on the 11th day of December current, Compeared Alexander Earl of Stirling, and interrogated by the Lord Advocate, If he had read the condescendence given in in his name? Declares, That he has. Interrogated, If he desires to make any additions or alterations on that condescendence ? Declares, That he is ready to make any further explanations that may be asked. Interrogated, When he was first made acquainted with the note issued by Lord Cockburn, December 10th, 1836 ? Declares, That he was not made acquainted with that, or any part of his Lordship's judgment or proceedings, till the month of March or April following, except as to their general import, which he had learned from the letters addressed to him by his own family. Interrogated, If in the month of December he had not been made acquainted with the note of December 10th, accompanying the draught of an interlocutor which Lord Cockburn intended to pronounce ? Declares, That he was not; and even now knows not any thing of the particulars of that note. Interrogated, If he did not receive in the course of the month of December, some information touching the interlocutor which Lord Cockburn, on the 10th of that month, had intimated his intention to pronounce ? Declares, Certainly not. Interrogated, If it is to be understood, that during that month of December he had received no communication of the judgment which on the 10th Lord Cockburn had intimated his purpose of issuing? Declares, None whatever; and for this best of reasons, that he was then travelling. Interrogated, If there was any professional person in this Court, or resident at Edinburgh, who usually informed him of the course of proceedings in this cause? Declares, No professional person; but generally he received such information from meinbers of his
own family. Interrogated, If in the said month of December any member of his family, or any other person, gave him any information relative to what had been done by Lord Cockburn on the 10th of December? Declares, None whatever: Declares, That he set out on the 18th of December, 1836, to go to France. Interrogated, Under what name he travelled into France ? Declines to answer on a point entirely private, further than that he did travel incognito, for economical reasons; the name by which he did travel appeared in his passport.
No person travelled along with him : Declares, That a letter was written to Madlle. Le Normand, by Lady Stirling, some time before he set out for Paris ; about nine or ten months before: That the reason for this correspondence arose from the previous proceedings in this Court for proving the tenour of a certain charter; and the evidence having been
thought insufficient, he had become desirous of having the records of Annapolis examined, in the view of obtaining further proofs on that matter; and in consequence of the extensive acquaintance of Madlle. Le Normand with literary persons, and her known facilities of communication with persons high in office, he was induced to communicate through Lady Stirling with her on that subject; and particularly to request ber to bend all her endeavours to find out any documents or charters relative to the possessions of the family of Stirling in that country: That he had never dreamed of seeking in France for documents illustrative of his own pedigree; and it was with the greatest surprise that he afterwards learned that those documents, since produced, had been discovered, and were calculated to throw light on that pedigree; and, in fact, no one was more surprised. Interrogated, Where he had obtained his passport ?' Declines to answer, being private,and being then in pecuniary difficulties, and unwilling to compromise his friends. He arrived in Paris on the 21st of December-Did not see Madlle. Le Normand for some time; and did not approach her house unless on very particular occasions, when requested by his family. Interrogated, If there was any one week, from his arrival in Paris till the month of June thereafter, that he did not see Madlle. Le Normand? Declares, That for many weeks he did not see her, and only saw her occasionally as above stated. Declares, That he met at Madlle. Le Normand’s with a person of the name of Triboul, her private secretary or amanuensis; and this only once or twice for a very short time, and after the discovery of the document. Interrogated, If he did not meet Triboul frequently at Madlle. Le Normand's, and remain in conference with him for hours, and this prior to the discovery of the document? Declares, Certainly not; and never saw him or heard of his name till after the document had been discovered, when at the declarant's request a copy was made by Triboul, he being a medical student employed by her as an amanuensis, as he understands : and this was for him to bring over to England, to be laid before his counsel ; which he did accordingly. Interrogated, Did he grant Madlle. Le Normand any obligation for 400,000 francs, or any other sum in case he should succeed in these proceedings ? Declares, That he had received advances of money from Madlle. Le Normand long before the time in question, and more than twenty years ago, and owed her a great deal of money : That she had besides been at great expense in making researches in France, in Germany, and in Holland, for
fifteen months, on the subject in question, in the view of benefiting his family: That for this debt and those outlays, including interest, he does owe her the sum stated; but of that not one farthing was intended as any remuneration for her services, she being far above receiving any return of that kind. Declares, That the payment of that sum is not made contingent on his success in these proceedings, but at certain fixed periods. Declares, that Madlle. Le Normand requested him to call on her a few days after she had discovered the document, but without apprising him why she did so : That she had not given him any intimation previously, of her hope of recovering such a document, nor had be the least idea of any thing of the sort. Interrogated, If Madlle. Le Normand ever informed him from whom she had received the document in question ? Declares, That she had done so no further than by telling him that two ladies, very fashionably dressed, had called at her house and left it. She did not inform him who these ladies were; but she stated to him her suspicion who the person was that had sent the document, and the declarant also had his own suspicion. Madlle. Le Normand told him she did not know who the ladies were : That she received a letter along with the document, in which the writer describes himself as holding a high situation, but in such circumstances as made it absolutely impossible for him to come forward ; and that he had made the communication from grateful feeling of obligation to Madlle. Le Normand and in consequence of applications that had been made to him by her friends. Madlle. Le Normand did not tell him what the ladies had said when they delivered the documents: That Madlle. Le Normand retained the original letter, but that a copy was taken, which is now in the hands of his agent: That Madlle. Le Normand did not name the person she suspected to have sent the document; and she has never done so to him. Interrogated by the Court, Who he himself suspects to be the person by whom the document was sent ? Declares, That he cannot venture to name that person, being of such exalted rank as to make such a declaration, on his part, unsafe and improper, without positive proof: That he neither can nor dare do more, having only strong suspicions on the subject. Interrogated by the Lord Advocate, If he has any objections to produce the copy of the letter in question ? Declares, he has none, and can have none, and a copy shall be produced. Interrogated, What is the date of his obligation to Madlle. Le Normand for the sum of 400,000 francs ? Declares, That this is a private matter, and he declines answering; and further, cannot recollect it at present, not expecting to be examined on such a subject entirely private. Interrogated, If that obligation was not granted by him in the period from December 1836 to July 1837 ? Declares, he cannot recollect--not having his notes, and not expecting the question. It was long before the discovery of the document, and was merely a settlement of old accounts -- nothing else,- and entirely unconnected with any thing of the kind. Interrogated, If he has any objection to state where he resided, while in Paris ? Declares, he has, as it might compromise friends. Interrogated, If, while in Paris, he recollects having gone to the shop of a person named Legouix, on the Quai D'Orsay, No. 1? Declares, he never heard of any such person. Interrogated, if he recollects of having purchased at that shop a map of Canada, by De Lisle, of the date of 1703? Declares, Certainly not, nor ever employed any person to purchase or receive such a map: That he was very differently employed, and can account for every hour of his time. Interrogated, Declares, That none of his family were ever with him in Paris, excepting Lady Stirling in 1822. Interrogatec, What is Madlle. Le Normand's profession? Declares, That he has the highest respect for Madlle. Le Normand, but has nothing to say as to her peculiar talents : That she is Auteur Libraire, and publishes and sells her own works. Interrogated, If he does not know whether she has any other occupation or employment ? Declares, That he can only say that she has been consulted by persons of the highest rank-sovereigns and others. He has nothing to do with her in any other way than he has explained. And Reinterrogated, and desired to answer the question,—He can only say that on her door is inscribed, Bureau de Correspondence ; more than this he cannot say: That she is consulted by all sorts of persons. Interrogated, If she is not generally known in Paris as a fortune-teller, and is consulted as such ? Declares, That in the common acceptation he believes she is so considered. Believes she tells fortunes by means of cards. Specially Interrogated, If he has seen her tell fortunes by means of cards? Declares, That being advised by his counsel to answer the question, he says that he has seen ber do so. Believes that she is paid by those who consult her, to tell their fortunes. Interrogated, Did she tell him his own fortune, on the cards or otherwise ? Declares, She certainly did at one period, as thousands have had the same curiosity: That he then paid her five Napoleons : That this was a long time ago; and he has no dates to assist his recollection. The first consultation he bad as to his