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that carried the curtain ; for the man that the fire there was a man in a green livery, carried the curtain had a green coat and brass who was very active there: pray tell us, was buttons,
you at the fire in Holborn, and who did you Att. Gen. Are you an acquaintance of observe there? Grove's ?
Holgate. My lord, about half an hour after Fletcher. Yes, I live in the same house. ten I was at a neigbbour's house, I beard
Alt. Gen. Was it Good Friday at night, there was a mob, and the meeting houses after he had been at Newgate, that he told you were burning ; upon that I went from thence, this ?-Fletcher. Yes.
to my wife, and told her the meeting-houses Att. Gen. Did you ask bim any questions were pulled down, and burning in Holborn ; if about the prisoner; or did he tell you of you will go, I will see what they are doing. bimself?
| There I saw a great many boys briuging wood Fletcher. He told me he had been at New and boards, and throwing them into the fire: gate to see Mrs. Miles's man: I asked if he and at the fire I saw a footman in a green said any thing? He said no ; that is not the livery and red buttons, and red stockings; I young man that I saw with the curtain. -saw him jumping, and very jolly. I will not
Mr. Darnell. The account I have of Grove, be positive that he is our neighbour's footman is, that he was a tradesman, and broke, and that is since gone off, but I did see a footman now lives by gaming.
in a green livery at the fire in Holborn, at L. C. J. If you have any thing to examine Leather-lane end. to his reputation, you will do well to call your Mr. Darnell. What did you see him do ? witnesses to it. Grove, what do you say to Holgate. I saw him jumping and waving this ?
his hat. Grove. When I came from Newgate, Il Mr. Darnell. What sort of man was he? thought it was the man; and I told him no Holgate. Mucb such a sort of man as the such thing: I told every body I spoke with, 1 prisoner. that I believed it was the man.
Mr. Darnell. Did you know the footman L. C. J. Did you tell him that you believed that is gone off?-Holgate. Yes. the man that had the curtain was in a green Mr. Darnell. Did you see the prisoner at coat?-Grove. No, not that night.
the fire ? Mr. Darnell. Did you tell him so at any Holgate. No; I am sure I should have time!
known him, if I had seen him. Grode. Yes; but that was the Wednesday Mr. Darnell. Did you stay any time at the night; but when I went to Newgate, he had a fire in Holborn ? blue coat; but I always believed him to be Hulgate. I did not stay two moments, bat the same man.
went up to Hatton-Garden, and there I saw L. C. J. Did he tell you he had a green coat a great many with their clubs and states, on that night he had been at Newgate, or crying out Sacheverell; one gave me a stroke before ?--Fletcher. It was before.
on the head, and asked me, why I did not pull L. C. J. I understood you, that when he off my bat? came back from Newgate, he told yon he had L.C.J. Why should you know the prinothing to say to this man, for that the man soner at the bar, if he had been there, and not that had the curtain had a green coat and brass know the man in green, who was your ac. buttons ?
quaintance too? Fletcher. He said he could not be positive, Holgate. My lord, I was at a distance. for that man had a green coat and brass L. C. J. Would not the same distance bare buttons.
hindered you from knowing the other? L. C. J. Did he tell you that night that he Mr. Darnell. My lord, I desire to call a had a green coat and brass buttons ?
witness or two to the manner of life of this Fletcher. I cannot tell whether it was that Grove. night.
Then Thomas Clark was sworn. Mr. Darnell. You say once he told you he had a green coat and brass buttons: what did Mr. Darnell. Do you know Mr. Grove? he say when he came from Newgate ?
Clark. I have known him many years. Fletcher. He said he could not be positive, Mr. Darnell. What was he? for that he had a blue coat on.
Clark. He kept a baker's shop. Just. Tracy. Did you, after you came from Mr. Darnell. What became of bim ? Newgate, say, you could not be positive he Clark. He broke. was the man?
Mr. Darnell. What became of him afterGrove. I did tell him I could not be positive. | wards ?
Mr. Thomson. Did you tell him you believed Clark. He went somewhere down to the • him to be the man?
water-side, to some place; but what it was I Grove. Yes; I said I did believe it, but I do not know. would not swear it was he.
Mr. Darnell. What does he do now? Then Holgate was sworn.
Clark. I cannot tell ; but they say he works
with bis uncle: I know nothing of him; but Mr. Darnell. We call bim, to shew that at be never had a good character in his life.
Mr. Darnell. How does he employ him
Then Mr. Miles was sworn. Clark. He is given to playing, as I have Mr. Darnell. Pray, Sir, what account do heard say.
you give of the prisoner? Mr. Darnell. Do you know any thing par. Miles. He has lived in our family two years : ticularly?
he has always behaved himself well, and soClark. No, indeed ; I never took so much berly, and was addicted to no ill. notice of him : but for the prisoner, I bave Sol. Gen. Was you at home that night? known him two years, and never saw any hurt Miles. No; I was out of towa. of him in my life.
Sol. Gen. When did you return ? ,
Miles. The Sunday following.
Mr. Darnell. My lord, we will not trouble Mr. Darnell. Do you know this Grove ? your lordship with any more witnesses; we Ward. Yes.
hope we have well accounted for the time he Mr. Darnell. What do you know of him ? was out of his mistress's house, for that seems Ward. He was a baker in Hatton-garden ; | to be all that sticks upon him, that his being I knew bim several years: I know him to be out so long might give room for him to be cona gamester.
cerned in this tumult: but by the witnesses it Mr. Darnell. What instances can you give appears, that the curiosity of seeing a mob, of his gaming ?
which he bad never seen before, might take up Ward. He has played with me for one. some part of his time; and the two fires being Mr. Darnell. How often ?
so near, that he could not go from one, without Ward. Not very often.
seeing the other, engaged him to go to them Mr. Darnell. What do you know of his both. There was a friend too that met bim, play? Does he live by it?
with whom he walked up and down the street · Ward. I cannot tell whether he lives by it an hour; but we think it sbews that he was not or no; but he has been by relation a great a ringleader, or aiding or assisting in pulling gamester.
down the meeting houses, for that witness says, Mr. Darnell. Do you know of any body's / they were then carrying the materials, and the servant that suffered by him?-Ward. No. fire was lighting at the time when they were
Mr. Darnell. What sort of games did he together; and that he parted with bim, in orplay at ?-Ward. At dice.
der to go home, but his curiosity carried him Att. Gen. Do you reckon yourself a game. to see that fire that was then lighting, that he ster?-Ward. No.
might carry an account of it. Alt. Gen. Did you ever know that mao play But upon the main question, we must humwith any but yourself?
bly insist, that tbere is no evidence to fix it Ward. Yes, at the Bell tavern in Gray's. upon the prisoner. There are not two witinn-lane.
nesses to any overt-act for tbe same treason, Atl. Gen. How often did you know him nor do those witnesses ascertain it to be the priplay there ?-Ward. But once.
soper; for now it appears a little plainer, that Att. Gen. How long ago was that?
his first charge was against a footman in a Ward. I cannot tell how long; another time green livery : he declared it was a footman in be played at our house in Hatton-garden. green with brass buttons; and when he came Att. Gen. How long ago was that ?
to Newgate to see this man, he believes him to Ward. I cannot justly tell.
be the same man ; that is the most of his eriMr. Darnell. Do you know the prisoner ? dence; but when he came home then to his Ward. Yes.
companion, that he lived in the house with, be Mr. Darnell. How long have you known believed it was not the same man, and he could bim ?-Ward. Two years.
not swear it was the same man, because he had Mr. Darnell. How has he behaved himself? a blue coat; and now he would carry his beWard. A very honest young man as can lief so far as to believe, that he then had a blue come into a house, by all relations that I ever coat, with black buttons ; and surely, nobody beard of him.
could mistake a blue coat with black buttons,
for a green coat with brass buttons: whatever Then Farrington was sworn.
may be supposed of the colour of blue by fireMr. Darnell. Do you know the prisoner ? | ligbt, altering by that light towards a green, Ferrington. Yes.
yet it cannot turn black buttons into brass ones. Mr. Darnell. How long have you known Supposing the person whom Grove pretends him?
to accuse were here, yet there are not two Farrington. I knew him when he lived in witnesses to an overt-act, for it is only conChancery-lane.
firmed by the confession which is proved by Mr. Darnell. What do you know of his be Lunt; but we hope the prisoner is not the perhaviour?
son that had the colours, and therefore there is Parrington. A very civil young man ; be no eridence to make him guilty. We cannot used to fetch drink at my house: I never differ from the resolution in the books in Mesheard him swear, or knew him guilty of any senger's case, much less with your lordsbip's
resolution yesterday ; but the case is entirely different between the waterman and tbis man, Victor. He was within the shop, I believe. for there it did appear that he carried the L. C. J. You told us, that you saw several branch, and threw it into the fire; that from people in the meeting, breaking it down: Did thence, he hallooed, and led a party, and offer- , you see the prisoner there? ed to be their captain, to Drury-lane, and in Victor. No, I did not. that manner he took upon him to lead them, I L. C. J. Pray, whence did he bring that and did lead them; but there is not any one in- timber that you saw upon bis shoulders ? stance of that nature here, there is not any one Victor. I cannot tell that. witness that proves him to be in a meeting. L. C. J. You did not see him bring it out of house, or to have done any thing there, or to the meeting house, did you ? have gone from one to another. If he had | Victor. No, I did not. joined with them at the first fire, and gone in ! Sol. Gen. Mr. Lunt, was Victor by you when with them in what they were doing, yet we the prisoner spoke to you? must insist, that it would not make him guilty Lunt. He stood lower than me: We filled of high treason. In the case in king Charles up the door-way: My hand was on the side of the second's time, it was apparent they were all the door: Every now and then the mob would in the design; the verdict found íhat they as- strike at me, as they went by, and were carrysembled; that they armed themselves; that ing the wood from the meeting to the fire; they they chose a captain ; that when the govern- | would huzza, and cry, You dog, who are you ment thought fit to interpose to suppress them, for? Mr. Victor and I stood so about half an they struck at the officer, threw stones at the hour: I stood there before the fire was lighted, captain of the guards, expressed their resolu- and till the guards came. tions of going to Whitehall, and shewed what Sol. Gen. How often did you see the pritheir intent was; but no design is proved soner during that time? against this man, and nothing to make it agree Lunt. But once ; and that was when he with that case : but those persons that were by spoke those words to me. all the judges acquitted from that treason; wel Sol. Gen. Was Victor by you then? think the evidence was much stronger against Lunt. Yes; of the side of me. them, than what is offered against this man : Sol. Gen. Then set up Victor again. Pray for in the case of Beadle, he was proved to be Sir, about this timber: You say you saw bim among them; and when the officer pursued with some timber on his back; who was by bim, he turned about, and cried to the people at that time? Was Lunt by ? to face about, and not to leave him: and though Victor. I do not know whether he was at the it appeared he was in the design, and called to door, or in the shop. the rest to resist in his defence, yet he was Mr. Thomson. Was he coming that way agreed not to be guilty of high treason, because from the meeting with the timber ? he was not aiding in pulling down the houses ; Viclor. Yes. wbich in those matters wherein the judges gave Mr. Darnell. Can you take it on your oath, their opinion, made it high treason : but as to that the man that spoke to Mr. Lupt was the Green in the first special verdict, and Beadle, man that carried the timber? they agreed, the verdict was not full enough to ! Victor. No, I cannot. convict them,
Att. Gen. My lord, we think the proof is L. C. J. The jury found the evidence, but sufficient; and notwithstanding any thing that did not find the fact which might have arose has been said by the counsel for the defendant, from that evidence; but if they had found, as it stands unimpeached, and it is clear, that the the consequence of that evidence, that they prisoner is guilty of this treason. The evidence were aiding and assisting, they would have of both sides makes it appear, that upon this been guilty. And though the court thought day there was an insurrection of the people, in there was reason for the jury to have said so, order to pull down the meeting-houses, and yet they not having said it, the court could not that they executed their design by pulling down say it for them.
several at that time. Mr. Darnell does not deny Mr. Darnell. My lord, we say there is no in but that, in point of law, all those people that tention proved against him, nor assisting in were gathered together, to execute this desigu, doing that which is the crime, in pulling down | are equally guilty of high-treason: So that the second meeting-house: And as for the first, | the question is only, whether this prisoner was that was pulled down, and burning, before he one of those people that were gathered together!
came; so that he could not assist in that. That wbich he insists upon is, that thougb this • Willis. I desire Lunt may be asked, If he man was there, yet no proof is made that he saw me carry any thing to the fire ?
was aiding towards the carrying on this design ; Lunt. I did not see him carry any thing. therefore we think what our witnesses say is
Willis. Did he see any of the mob take notice consistent, and not impeached by what was said of me?
of the other side. The first witness that we Lunt. There was nobody with him, or that called, though he was not acquainted with the took notice of bim : He went from the fire, | prisoner, yet he says, there was a man in a blue alter he had spoke those words, very quietly. livery, that was so remarkable in leading the
L. C. J. Victor, was you by Mr. Lunt when mob, with a curtain on a pole, that he could you saw the prisoner carry the timber?
not but take notice of it; and that when he went to Newgate, to see the prisoner, be took | enquire: He told this man, that he was sent him to be the same man that carried the colours; | out to get intelligence, but you see, that though and though he cannot be so positive as to swear | he was asked to stay and drink with this man, directly, yet he now believes it is the same he would not, but left bim, and what he did man, though he cannot be positive. I am sure then, he could not tell; it is therefore likely I should be very far from pressing any thing that he afterwards went to this business that further than the nature of the evidence will he was afterwards unhappily engaged in. bear: therefore I hope I do not misrepeat what As to what they insist on, that they bave he says: Therefore it leaves it somewhat un-called witnesses to invalidate the testimony of certain, yet, whether the prisoner at the bar Grove, that he made some mistake about the was the man that carried those colours? But colour of his clothes, that is no great matter to that which puts this out of dispute, and makes be relied on; for blue and green, by candle. it clear that this is the man, is Lunt's evidence, | light, are pretty much of the saine cast, espewho now appears not to be an enemy to the cially at a transient view; but you see the view prisoner: He tells you, that that night the | he had was sufficient to know his face, but the prisoner told him, that they had made him | light of the fire occasioned another cast upon captain of a party that night; that he had bis clothes, therefore his thinking it to be green made colours of a curtain, and that we had when it was blue, will make no difference: and burnt the clock. Now it is very strange, that though he does not speak positively, but speaks if he was not concerned in carrying this curtain, with caution, and not as a man would do, that that he should talk of a curtain and colours, was prejudiced, and came to take away a man's and say, that he had made colours of a curtain. life : though he says he cannot positively say If he was not the man, it is unhappy that he this is the man, yet he says he does really should, within an hour after he was observed | think it is. As to the witnesses that prove he by our witnesses, say, that he was the man | had a misfortune, and broke, that may be many they had chosen; and that he had made a colours an honest man's misfortune to fail in a way of of a curtain ; and that they had burnt the trade: I do not see that they do impeach bis clock. It is not to be imagined he would have credit at all: though they talk of his playing. said such a thing, if he had not been the man I do not find but one man that has seen him that the others saw carrying it; therefore, play, and most people do some time or other : putting these two witnesses together, (who are I do not find that be bas swerved, or done any persons that no ways appear to be concerned thing fonl; but we must submit the matter of to bring this man to justice more than any fact to the consideration of the jury : I believe other) and it makes it plain and clear, that this the matter of law is agreed : I believe thera is the man that flourished the colours. If so, was a notion in the world, that it was only a then it is plain this is one evidence; and I riot, for wbich they might be fined, and the agree, it is necessary that there should be another like, but the law is now agreed ; and as to the witness to prove some fact, and the testimony fact, we must submit it to your lordship's di. of one witness will not be enough, therefore we rections. have produced Victor, that personally knew this man. He says, he saw him with a piece Sol. Gen. I think Mr. Darnell does agrea, of timber on his shoulders; that he saw bim that if there was a general intention to pull throw it into the fire; and that he saw that down meeting-houses, it would be rebellion man go afterwards and speak to Lunt, and and bigh treason. I take it, that it was so, is Lont told him who he was.
as fully proved as is possible, by having so It is of consequence to all governments, to many pulled down, and by such a multitude of make every body, that is any ways aiding in people as were got together for that purpose : these disorders, equally guilty; for it is impos for it cannot be thougbt, that the people that sible to tell who begins in these cases: You were at one house intended to pull down that, may know wbo carries on these things, but and those that were at the other houses intenda you cannot tell who begins them; therefore it ed to pull down them only; but it must be a will not be sufficient for them to rely on, that general intention to pull down meeting-houses be was sent by bis mistress at that time, for in general; we think, therefore, the general that is all that was proved, that he was sent intention is proved, therefore what Tolboy says out to see where the fire was, and his being does not confine it: for though he says, what sent out for that purpose will not make him they declared was only in regard to Mr. Bur-, the less guilty, if he did join with them, and | gess's meeting-house, yet that does not take off aid them in what was done: For if men are from the evidence of what passed the next day, met together to do an unlawful act, and those when the several meeting-houses were pulled that do not know it join with tbem, they are down; and the fact, without that evidence, guilty; therefore whether he knew of that shews the particular intention; and the mob meeting, or was only sent out by his mistress, that were at Lincoln's-inn- fields, swore, Damn yet if it is proved that he did join, and aid and them, they would have them all down; and assist those that were engaged in that treason, accordingly they went away to another, and be is equally guilty. As to what was said by pulled that down; therefore, that there was a Prior, who was his companion, that appears to general intention, is sufficiently proved, and be just at his being sent out by his mistress to | that this man did act in that intention. We VOL. XV,
think it is sufficiently proved, that he was at it then? It is agreed he was at the bonfire in two of them ; but if it had been but one, it had Holborn; he was sent out for that purpose : been the same case. But they object, that this the fire was seen at his mistress's house, and he is not a legal evidence; for, say they, the sta was sent out to enquire after the matter. That tute restrains it, and says, that no confession there was a man there in a blue livery, is proved can be given in evidence, and the evidence of by several people, and it is proved that he had Lunt, without it, will not do ; and Grove's not a blue livery. Grove says he saw a man, he swearing positively to the man, without the cannot tell whether be was in blue or green, help of Lunt, will not be a legal evidence, so with a standard in Holborn: he says, be does as to prove an overt-act. This is the strength not know whether he was in blue or green, but of the objection in point of law and God forbid he took him to be a man of that size, and be that we should insist on any thing but what is supposes him to be the man. But here is still legal evidence: it is justice to him, not to offer a doubt, whether this is the man that carried any such thing, as it is to the crown, to insist the standard ; and how is that cleared ? Now on what is legal evidence, to bring bim to pu- | this, with submission, is cleared by the man nisbment. The words of the Act are, That no himself, if that be evidence, which we insist person shall be indicted, tried, or attainted of upon it it is. This declaration to Lunt, that he luigh treason, whereby corruption of blood may had made colours of a curtain, and that he was be made, or of misprision of such treason, but chose captain of a party, that does explain it, by the oaths and testimonies of two lawful wit- and is not answered by any thing they bare ofnesses, either both to the same overt-act, or fered to the contrary. As to his acting in the one to one, and the other to another overt-act tumult in Leather-lane, Victor swears, that he of the same treason, unless the party willingly, saw bim with a piece of timber on his shoulder, in open court, confess the same, &c. Now in, and that he carried it, and threw it into the fire. this case, bere are two lawful witnesses. Grove | Lunt, as to every thing he speaks, is clear: be is a lawful witness, he is capable of being a proves that he spoke some words to him; and witness; whether what he says is sufficient for as to what Victoi says, he is as clear, that he the proof of the point, must be left to the con- bad the wood and threw it in. The only ques. sideration of the jury. If there are two legal tion then will be, where he had this wood! witnesses, to which there are no legal objec- whether he had the wood wbich he threw inte tions, it is sufficient; whether what they swear the fire, made of the materials of the meetingja sufficient to prove the fact, is of another con- house, from any other place? They give sideration; but there is not one word in the you some evidence, that he was going home Act to restrain a confession from being given in quietly; and that they parted about eleven at evidence: he shall not be convicted on a trial, Brook's-market: but it is plaiu, he did not go without two lawful witnesses; that is the thing home till just twelve, for so all the family agree; that is provided for, and it was to exclude a pre so that that time is to be accounted for, which cedent that had been settled in Tong's case, in he might have spent at this bonfire, and in this my lord chief justice Keyling's Reports, an evi- tumult. There is another man to answer the dence of confession only, that was proved by business of what they call the High Church two witnesses, and that was the occasion of standard: he says, there was a map in a green making this law, that his confession alone should livery which he saw, and thought he knew not be sufficient, without an overt-act. This him, but could not be positive, because he was was the reason and ground of making that Act at a distance; but if it had been this man, he of Parliament, but it was not designed to ex- / believes he should bare known him ; but there clude all confessions. That was evidence at is as little reason for bim to know the one as law, and always must be so: that evidence that the other. The man in the green livery, he comes out of a man's own mouth, was always says, is run away, but he says nothing as to the allowed. The design of the Act was to exclude brass buttons; and it is easy to mistake between confessions from having the force of a convic- green and blue, tion, unless it were in a court of record, and to I shall not urge the evidence further than it prevent a confession proved by two witnesses, is reasonable; these are circumstances which from being a sufficient ground for a conviction. will be under the consideration of the jury. A confession is a considerable evidence, and in But sopposing the man to be concerned in this many cases clears a thing beyond contradiction; manner, acting as the queen's evidence have and in this case it shews how necessary it is; proved, it will be high treason within tbe case for when things are transacted in the dark, and in my lord Keyling's Reports, and is not dis it is impossible for strangers to give a clear de- / tinguished by what Mr. Darnell offered. He scription of persons, surely the confession of a says, there was leading and arming, and they man himself is the most proper evidence in the struck at the guards; so here was leading, for world, and the most satisfactory. This then uobody denies but they had a standard: the being a lawful evidence, it stands clear of that only question is, whether the prisoner carried objection : here are two witnesses to the overt- | it? and in the other mobin Lincoln's-inn-fields, act, and this evidence of Lunt is not excluded, they were led, and hallooed away to Drury. but this confession of the party is lawful to be lane. And as to the Case of Beadle, which be given in evidence.
would compare it to, there was no act that was This being the state of the matter, how stands done by him; besides, the verdict was defece