militia; but he was forry to fee the word feveral in the refolution, when he was certain, that the unanimous determination of the Irish militia might be depended on, if their fervices were required. However their intentions were laudable and generous on their part, to affift the Crown in any part of the empire, and to make a return for the liberal affiftance which had been afforded to their country at a former period, would any military man fay that it was confiftent with found policy to withdraw difciplined troops from a country which was particularly and avowedly threatened with an immediate attack, and to place in their ftead the fame number of raw, undifciplined troops, which might require two years before they would arrive to an equal ftate of perfection? Was it wife, or was it juft or politic, he would ask any country gentleman, when a country was threatened with immediate invafion, to withdraw 10,000 of as fine peafantry as any in the world, from its native refources of defence, and to withdraw along with them the gentlemen of the first respectability in wealth or influence within that country, from the affiftance which they could otherwife afford it by their wifdom, their power and their connections? If England was fituated as Ireland now is, would the country gentlemen of England think it reafonable? He knew that his Majefty's Minifters did not poffefs the power to enforce the extenfion of the fervices of a militia force, but he implored the country gentlemen to confider whether it would not be better to recommend a change of the militia of the two countries, than to leave 10,000 recruits to be raised in the place of an equal number of we difciplined troops, which were to be withdrawn from its defence. He had often recommended to his Majefty's Minifters to inquire into the ftate of that country; but unfortunately for that people, and to the difgrace of the Minifters, they had never thought fit to inquire into the business. He was convinced, however, that, if a number of the enlightened part of this country, the fuperior officers of the militia, were to go over to Ireland during a time of fuch peril as the prefent, and were to fee the ftruggles that would be made by the great majority of that people in the defence of their King and of their Conftitution, they would, nay they muft, confiftent with their own good fenfe, come back when the contest was over, with a thorough conviction on their minds, that those people deferved better treatment than they had hitherto received from the fervants of that Crown for which they were ready to face any force, however formidable, or however

however fpecious might be his pretences. He would not confider himfelf bound to the fupport of any future measure that might be brought forward by the bill; but, inasmuch as the addrefs expreffed an approbation of the loyal and gallant offers which had been made, he would for the prefent give his vote in fupport of it, but would at a future period declare his fentiments freely with refpect to any provifion which might tend to weaken the native defence of the country in a moment fo important as the prefent.

Mr. Bankes did not wish the Houfe to pledge itself to adopt a fyftem before it was aware what that fyftem was to be; for which reafon he wifhed the Houfe to inquire into this matter before it voted any thing further than thanks to the Throne. He deprecated any meafure tending to weaken the force of Ireland, which was much more vulnerable than this country. He thought the proper fphere of the militia fervice was in its own home. He was adverse to the admiffion of a principle which would authorize a fimilar offer on the part of the English militia; and in the prefent circumftances of Ireland the force propofed to be taken from it must be replaced by fome other. He was for the ftrict obfervance of public faith upon all occafions whatever. The events of 1798 were highly detrimental to the militia fervice in general; and he concluded by obferving that, in his prefent view and under his prefent information of the fubject, he should, if pufhed to a vote, give it against the meafure entirely.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, after noticing what he conceived as inconfiftencies of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Windham) with respect to his opinions and conduct relative to a question fimilar to the prefent, paffed on to the confideration of the fubject before the Houfe. The conduct of the Irish militia was worthy of the highest encomiums; but he deprecated the idea held out, that thefe fpirited and patriotic offers could not be accepted without a breach of faith. The effect of the addrefs was, that they would proceed to confider of fuch provifions as may be necellary to enable the Crown for a time to be limited to accept these offers: it was material to confider the best means of enabling the Crown to exercise a difcretionary power on this occafion. On this he contended it was material that Parliament fhould come to a speedy determination. It was material that the Government of Ireland fhould know in the interval of the enfuing recefs, that the Legislature was willing to accept of

fuch

fuch laudable offers; it was right the Government of that part of the united kingdom fhould know the difpofitions of Parliament upon the fubject. With refpect to the idea that Ireland was about to be stripped of 10,000 men by the meafure, it was entirely unfounded. The prefent queftion merely refpected the vefting a difcretionary power in his Majesty to accept, in fuch proportions or at fuch periods as he fhould deem proper, a force to the amount stated; but this by no means implied that fuch removed troops were not to be replaced. Gentlemen who talked fo feemed to forget that there was a middle defcription of force in this country, that was neither regular troops nor militia; he alluded to the army of referve, with which the military eftablishment of Ireland might be repaid any number of troops taken therefrom. Such an arrangement might by that means be made as would li berate 5000 troops of the difpofeable force of either country. It was not intended in the least to diminish the efficient forces of Ireland. One of the principal objects in fuch an interchange would be to augment the force of that description, which the right hon. Gentleman uniformly profelfed to think infinitely fuperior to any other, he meant the difpofeable, fuch as could be employed upon foreign or offensive service fhould fuch be deemed defirable. Independent of this confideration, it was the most expeditious way in which a force to fuch an amount could be trained and difciplined. On fuch an occasion no time should be loft; they thould let the militia of Ireland understand that they were willing to accept offers which involved fo many advantages, and that without delay; but they might depend upon it, they would have no more. offers from Ireland if they voted the amendment of the right hon. Gentleman; and upon thefe grounds he was decidedly hoftile to that proceeding.

Sir 7. Newport exprefled his exultation that the loyalty and affection of the great body of the people of Ireland stood vindicated in the estimation of his Majesty's Minifters. Such was what he inferred from the declaration of one of them, and in which fentiment he trufted they all agreed; the loyal and patriotic offers of the militia, who he believed to a man would cheerfully volunteer their fervices, was a ftriking proof, to a very great extent, of the truth with which he wished to imprefs the Houfe. The charge of difaffection against the great bulk of the Irish people was most groundlessly made. He trusted they would all in the hour of danger, whatever may be the differences in their religious tenets,

ftand

ftand forth and defend the Crown and Confiitution of the united realm against all attacks whatever. There were certainly fome few among the very loweft orders of the people-the rabble of every country, who, bound by no ties, or inAuenced by no just principle, were prone to wish for changes in the Government, in the hopes of being able to gratify their own unruly passions and propenfities, and fo far may be held as difaffected; and fuch there were in Ireland in common wi h other countries; but with refpect to the great body of the people, he repeated, his Majesty had not more true, firm, or loyal fubjects in all the empire, than those of Ireland.

Col. Calcraft begged leave to offer a few obfervations upon the fubject before the Houfe. If he understood the nature of the cafe rightly, there was no neceffity whatever for the hafty decifion preffed by his Majefty's Minifters. He was informed, by an officer of great refpectability, that the Irish. Government had offers of fervice from fome of the militia regiments fo long back as four months: if this were fact, the confideration of the fubject furely would admit a fuspension of half a dozen days, to allow Parliament to deliberate on a principle of fuch importance as that involved in the addrefs. He defended his right hon. Friend, fo he hoped he might call him, from the charge of inconfiftency in the opinions delivered by him. The ftate of Ireland at the time alluded to fhould be confidered-a rebellion raged in the heart of the country, and we could fpare no other force to refift or to fupprefs it then, but our militia. He had had fome opportunities of knowing the state of the popular mind in Ireland, and he was not quite fo fanguine as to the extinction of difaffection therein, as fome Gentlemen feemed to be; and much still remained to be done, before that fpirit would be obliterated. There were other objections which he entertained to a hasty decifion upon the fubject. He recollected on a former occafion the total want of difcipline that prevailed, while the fentiments of the militia corps were ascertaining upon the point of extenfion of fervice; and he trusted, he fhould never again have occafion to go round canvassing his men on fuch a fubject.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer and Mr. Calcraft fpoke in explanation; in the courfe of which the latter wifhed the Minifter,fif he had any objection to lay the dates of the offers of service before the House, to state them; to which the reply was, "None in the least."

Mr.

Mr. Grenville made a few general obfervations on the subject and in fupport of the arguments advanced by his right hon. Friend (Mr. Windham). He would put it to Minifters, whether, if fimilar offers were made on the part of the militia of England, they were prepared to fay, they would not propote measures for carrying them, into effect, which, it would appear, in the way it feemed to be treated, they were brought to difcufs by stealth.

Mr. Archdall expreffed his hope, that neither Ministers nor the Houfe would allow a question of fuch importance as the present to be treated of by ftealth. On the contrary, he hoped it would fully and clearly meet the unanimous approbation of Parliament. The eulogium of the hon. Baronet on the loyalty of the bulk of the people of Ireland was unneceffary. Who ever doubted it? It was faid that the militia fervice had received a blow; with respect to that of Ireland, he knew not what blow it received, but he well knew what blows it gave-it gave rebellion in that country a mortal blow; they gave repeated blows to their enemy; and he was confident they would do fo again, wherever the opportunity was afforded them.

Lord De Blaquiere expreffed his approbation of the addrefs, as he deemed it highly proper at fo critical a period to accept the fervices which had been tendered with fo much loyalty; he was furprised that any hefi tation should exift for a moment to accept the proffered fervices of fo large a body of loyal men in arms. With re

spect to an equal offer of service on the part of the Englishmilitia, he well knew the beneficial tendency of fuch a proe ceeding. He recollected their fignal fervices to the empire at large while employed in Ireland. To their exertions ths falvation of that country was owing. Had not the regiment, of Lord Buckingham and the Duke of Rutland landed fo opportunely as they did, that country would no longer have appertained to Britain. He hoped the English militia would voluntarily come forward and extend their fervices to Ireland. But he reprobated the idea of this being done in the way of flipulation. Was the ardour of either militia clogged in fuch a way, it would be injurious to both countries, and an infult to one. He thought the militia of Ireland could render the greateft fervice to the empire at large, when employed out of Ireland, problematical as this might appear. He felt it to be the cafe. He felt how it must operate, when a father and two or three of his fons were perhaps fighting VOL. II. 1803-4. again't

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