to allude next to fome arguments calculated to fhew the deficiency of our military eftablishment in the Eaft and West Indies. As to the prefent fituation of St. Domingo, he took on himself to affert, that the number of British troops to be kept up in the West Indies, ought to be less than at any former period. He could hardly conceive it poffible to argue, that with relation to other objects in the Weft Indies, our force was at all inadequate to the accomplishment of every British purpose. The Houfe were aware of the advantages gained in that quarter of the world fince the commencement of the war, and he would put it fairly to the candour of any hon. Member, whether advantages of fo important a nature had ever been gained within the fame period. An hon, Baronet (Sir J. Wrottefley) had taken notice of the capture of a small fet lement on the coaft of Africa. He was willing to admit, on the authority of the hon. Baronet, for he knew nothing of the matter from any other quarter, that fuch an advantage had been gained by the enemy; but what did this at all prove as to the general means of our defence both with respect to this country and our foreign poffeffions? Nothing was more eafy than to account for this partial advantage of the enemy. It arofe folely from this plain circumftance, which was common in every war, that our fettlements on the coaft of Africa were the leaft valuable of our poffeffions, and occupying the fmallest degree of attention, were the most likely to fall into the hands of the enemy, however inconfiderable the force by which they were attacked. The hon. Gentleman next referred to the fituation of our affairs in India. He was utterly at a lofs to conceive on what poffible ground a charge of the infufficiency of our force in India could be brought forward. He needed not to enlarge on the brilliant and impotant victories obtained by the gallantry of our forces in that quarter of the world. When, however, he flated what á fmall proportion of European troops were engaged in thefe fervices, the House must fee that the noble Lord at the head of our Eastern dominions had taken no step which could at all endanger their fecurity. He had to flate then, according to the most recent accounts which had reached him, that in all the brilliant engagements which had taken place on the continent of India, not more than five thoufand out of twentytwo thoufand European troops in our pay had, in any inftance, been engaged. He appealed to the Houfe whether there could be a more conclufive proof that any objection

against

against the ftate of our military defence and state of preparation in India was totally unfounded. The hon. Gentle man concluded by offering a few obfervations in favour of the bill. His argument on this point was generally that, by the adoption of the measure, ten thousand regular troops would be left difpofable for anv general purpose.

Mr. Fox began by adverting to the obfervations which had been made refpecting a meeting of those principally concerned in the fupport of the militia fyftem, and the refolutions which they had entered into on the fubject. He expreffed his aftonishment at the language employed that evening by an hon Member on the lame bench with himself (Sir W. Keene), and another hon Member behind him (Colonel Hutchinfon), as to the motives by which thefe refolutions were fuggefted It feemed to be taken for granted, that mere confiderations of inconvenience gave rife to the determination of the very refpectable body of individuals to which he had referred. But he begged leave folemnly to protest against any fuch inference, Was it not poffible that the noble and hon. perfans who had come to thefe refolutions did fo independent of every idea of individual inconvenience? Was it not poffible that their oppofition to a meafure for the reci procity of the fervices of the English and Irish militias was founded on strict conftitutional principles, and in perfect conformity to the fundamental laws of the militia fyftem? Were the Noblemen and Gentlemen of England to bear the infinuation caft out against them, that they refufed to volunteer the fervices of the militia regiments which they commanded, because they were unwilling to forego the pleasures of their horfes and their hounds? Was it, neceffary, for him to mention the names of those who had figned the refolutions, to fhew that fuch an idea was not to be entertained for a fingle moment? Enough indeed had been faid by the hon. Gentlemen who had attributed the refolutions to any idea of inconvenience, to fhew that fuch a fuppofition was wholly groundless. It had been admitted that the noble and hon. perfons who figned the refolutions, poffeffed a very great intereft in the fafety of Ireland. From that part of the empire, they derived the greatest part of their influence, as well as the most important fource of their property. Was it to be conceived then, that in refufing the offers of the militia of England to ferve in Ireland, they were actuated by any confi-, derations of perfonal inconvenience? No man could feriouf, ly hold fuch an opinion. He was confident that every man 312

who

who reflected on the fubject must be forced to admit, that those by whom the refolutions were figned had every motive to provide for the fecurity of Ireland, not merely from confiderations of intereft, but from well digefted views of the value of Ireland as a material and effential part of the British empire. He commended the refolutions entered into on this broad conftitutional principle, and he fhould certainly concur in refifting any measure by which the principles of the militia establishment might be violated without full and fair difcuffion. Gentlemen who fupported the propriety of accepting the offers of the Irish militia, proceeded on the principle that the fervices of the militia of both countries were to be reciprocally exchanged. This was, however, an opinion affumed without the fligheft evidence. This was a queftion which had never at all come under any general parliamentary confideration. The queftion was one of the highest importance; but it was not to be difpofed of in the way for which thefe Gentlemen were fo anxious to contend. It was not by the bill now before the Houfe that it was to be determined. If the general queftion of the policy and expediency of the reciprocal fervices of the two militias was to be brought forward, let it be fully, fairly, and impartially confidered; but let it not be taken for granted that any fuch understanding of the principles of the union as that contended for does at all exift. An hon. Member (Colonel Hutchinson) had talked a good deal of the beneficial confequences which would refult from the introduction of the Irith militia into this country, and the new habits and opinions which fuch a measure would infpire. He could not help thinking this rather a romantic view of the fubject, and he had never heard it urged as one of the benefits which would refult from the union. Hitherto, indeed, he had never heard of any benefit refulting from the union, with the exception of this folitary one, that Ireland had been deprived of her local Legislature. He was ready to admit that he did not think many of the acts of that Legislature very laudable; but he muft in candour be permitted to fay, that hitherto the measure of the union had not received a fair trial. Those who introduced the mealine into this House, had held out a profpe& to Gentlemen here, and more circuitously to the Members of the Parliament of Ireland, that the measure of union would be incomplete, independent of ulterior arrangements. Refpecting the measure itself, he withed not now to enlarge, as he had not attended the difcuffion which it had created. He would however repeat, that

it

4

it had not received a fair trial. He must be permitted alfo to add, that in his opinion the union of this country with Ireland was a meafure practically impoffible. Ireland was a country too extenfive to admit of fuch a union, and the fyftem of representation neceflary to carry it into effect must be attended with infurmountable difficulties. It was contrary to the nature of things to expect any important benefits from it. As far as affimilation of manners and an increase of mutual confidence were concerned, he might put it to the candour of any Gentleman to declare, whether any advantage had hitherto been attained either to Ireland or the empire at large. Under the prefent circumftances of the Government of Ireland, it was indeed utterly impoffible that any confidence or union of fentiment could exift; when the Lord Chancellor of Ireland took on himfelf to sinfult the feelings of threefourths of the people, by telling them that they could not be good fubjects to their King without violating their duty to the God whom they adored; that they could not be faithful to the British conftitution without renouncing the religion they profeffed. The tranquillity of Ireland, therefore, under fuch a Government, could only depend on the fame measures which now exifted in that country, and by the protraction of the fame measures of coercion which Minifters themselves had called for as applicable to the circumstances of that part of the empire. Having finished thefe general obfervations, Mr. Fox proceeded to the more direct confideration of the bill. After adverting to the fallacy of an argument, that there was no diftinction betwixt a body of Irifh tencibles and Irish militia, he stated his views of thefe general offers of extenfion of fervices. It was clear that fuch offers of extended service were obtained by means which could not be justified on conftitutional principles. It had been very properly objected to this measure, that it encouraged the practice of deliberation in military bodies, which was allowed on all hands to be inexpedient and impolitic. But his hon. Friend (General Maitland) had endeavoured to do away this objection by a sort of argument which he could not help confidering a little extraordinary. He had stated that, in certain cafes, particularly on occasions when fome hazardous enterprife was to be attempted, the sight of deliberation was allowed among foldiers. This was, to be fure, a very applicable argument! In the cafe of the militia, you have no right to call for the extenfion of their fervices. You cannot compel them to go beyond the limits of their original agreement.

But

But though poffeffing no power of control or compulfion, you cajole, you canvafs, and by means of the most extraordinary kind, you prevail on them to extend the limits of their fervices. In the other cafe of regular foldiers, every man, whether a volunteer or not, is bound to go on whatever duty is preferibed to him, however difficult. When an enterprife of difficulty and danger is to be undertaken, the motives of honour and reward are held forth to animate the voluntary offers of individuals of more courageous and determined fpirit. But what analogy was there, he defired to ask, betwixt fuch an offer and the offer of the militia regiments of Ireland to extend their fervices to this country? No Gentleman would furely pretend that, to volunteer their fervice to this country under the prefent circumstances of the empire, was the part either of honour or of danger. If any part of the empire was expofed to danger, furely this coun ry was not in fo perilous a ftate as Ireland. His hon. Friend had alluded to the exertions made by the prefent fervants of the Crown during the last year, and had referred to the fucceffes which had crowned our arms, as a proof of their not being deficient in energy. This was a fpecies of argument which was really good for nothing, as applicable to a gene ral conclufion. He did not profefs to be intimately acquaint ed with dates, but he would refer to the year 1780, when unfortunately we commenced hoftilities with the Dutch Repub lic. In that year we made numerous conquests from the Dutch, both in the Weft and Eaft Indies. We got poffelfion of St. Eustatius and Demerara, with other fettlements, which he needed not at the moment enumerate. But of what avail were thefe conquefts? The nature of the peace afterwards concluded, was the best answer to this question. He had only to defire, that the fame principle thould be applied to the conquefts made fince the commencement of the prefent war, on which fo much ftrefs had been laid by his hon. Friend. As to our fucceffes in the East Indies, he begged leave to make a few obfervations. That the victories, of which recent accounts had been received, were in themelves highly brilliant, he was far from wifhing to deny What their confequence might be, or how far the deftruction of the power of the Mrattas in India was a politic or expedient measure, he begged the Houfe to understand that at prefent he offered no opinion. He referved himself on thefe points till the Houfe was in poffeffion of fuller information. He however agreed with the arguments of a worthy

Baronet