Mr. Fox agreed with his honourable Friend, that it was not strictly orderly.

- Dr. Laurence continued, and infifted that no benefit was to be derived from the poffeffion of the islands, if after much British capital fhould be expended on them they were to be given up in the end. The learned Gentleman obferved upon the different conftitutions of the militia force of Ireland and of Great Britain, and concluded by justifying the refolutions to which the hon. Baronet (Sir John Newport) had alluded, and affuring the hon. Member that any hopes of reciprocal service which he might have conceived from the last refolution, were not well founded.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in explanation, stated, that provifional orders had been fent out to the Weft Indies in the early part of March, founded on information that the enemy meant to reinforce one or two islands, to prevent the landing of troops in thofe iflands, and that the orders for the actual commencement of hoftilities had been fent out on the 16th of May, the day of his Majefty's Meffage commu nicating the refult of the negotiation.

Mr. Serjeant Best defended the conduct of his Majesty's Minifters; he could not perceive what inference was to be drawn, with refpect to the question before the House, from the confiderations that had been urged relative to the commencement and profecution of the war. If the war had not been commenced, the Houfe would, perhaps, not have been at this time deliberating as a Parliament, and he infifted that the question concerning the war had been fanctioned by the authority of the Legislature, and the approbation of the public. He denied the pofition that no glory had been acquired in the present war. Was it no glory, he asked, that whilst the Continent was crouching beneath the power of France, this country had been enabled to withstand the gigantic efforts made by its inveterate foe, and aimed at its exiftence? Was it no glory that in the second year of the war, they were confidering a measure which was to enable us to augment our difpofable force, for the purpose of adopting a system of attack against our enemies? Was it a fault of his Majesty's Government that valuable poffeffions had been acquired without bloodshed? The question was not now to whdraw any of the force from Ireland, but to augment the dripotable force in the empire. He contended, that the mila might as conftitutionally be fent from Ireland to Great Britain, infmuch as the union made both countries one kingdom, and the fervice of the militia ought to be co-extenfive with the limits VOL. II. 1803-4

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of the kingdom. The English and Scotch militia might be removed as far from home to the diftant parts of Great Britain as if fent to Ireland; and therefore the argument of convenience fell to the ground. It would, however, not be confiftent with good faith to compel their fervices, but that breach of faith was done away by the voluntary offers which had been made. The learned Member thought that this question ought not to be difcuffed, because, with whatever warmth it might be treated, it would be a cold aníwer to the zeal and fpirit of the gentlemen who had made the offers; and concluded with ftating it to be his opinion, that the militia, as being more characterised by the habits of common life than any other fpecies of military force, ought to be interchanged in the different parts of the empire, for the purpose of promoting the affimilation of manners and habits in the two countries, which would moft speedily carry the union into complete effect.

Mr. Johnstone denied, as had formerly been stated, that the war was approved of by the country at large. The unanimity that prevailed arofe from very different circumstances. The moment the war was declared, we were threatened with invafion, which united the whole country independently of any confideration of the neceffity or expediency of the war. It was a war, he maintained, that could end only in a peace fuch as was made at Amiens. Could any acquifitions, he afked, we had made in the Weft Indies, contribute in the fmallest degree to force the French to a peace? The Gentlemen on the opposite bench, however, had taken merit to themfelves for fending orders to the West Indies, by which we had gained fome diftant and temporary advantages there. But if this was fo much calculated to do them credit, why did they not iffue fimilar orders to the Eaft Indies, and thus prevent the expedition of Admiral Linois, which certainly would have been of much more importance to this country? The hon. Gentleman concluded by giving his negative to the Speaker's leaving the chair.

Lord Caftlereagh replied to the obfervations of Mr. Johnftone, refpecting the orders fent out to the Eaft and Weft Indies, and fhewed, from the different circumftances attending the two fituations, why correfponding orders were not fent. Ir was fuppposed that the reinforcements of troops prepared in France were intended for the garrifons in the West Indies, and the order was confequently fent. Orders were fent to the East to take all proper measures of defence, and, indeed, a general

order

order was iffued to all the fettlements immediately after the rupture: but no order could, from the nature of the cafe, be fent to the Eaft Indies analogous to what was fent to the Weft.

Mr. Kinnaird rofe to take notice of what had fallen from an hon. Member who had faid, that if we gained no glory in the war, we should fhame the French. He did not exactly understand this principle. His object, in this war, was to bring it to a speedy and effectual termination; not to remain in a miferable state of fiege, and be daily putting new fetters on our exertions. This measure was to be accompanied with another, to increase the army by 18,000 men. But how? To be raised here, and in Ireland; and yet by this measure Ministers set up a new competition in the railing this new militia.

Colonel Vereker thought it unfair to take away the Irish mi litia for English fervice, and then oblige Ireland to raife fo many more to make up the deficiency; the expence of them being defrayed by the bounties paid by the counties in Ireland, might thus be amazingly increased.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved that it was the intention of Government to introduce a claufe to charge the expences of the bounty on the united kingdom.

He

Colonel Hutchinfon expreffed much fatisfaction at the refolutions of the Lords Lieutenants, &c. on the fubject of the militia, as they did not go to preclude any new fyftem of arrangement. He fhould fupport the bill, because he wished to fupport the Executive Power at the prefent moment. hoped for a bill to allow the interchange of the militia of both countries. In England, from the palace to the cottage, there was a greater ignorance of the true ftate of Ireland, than of any other country with which we profeffed to be acquainted, upon the face of the globe. He hoped to fee the English gentry and perfons of other claffes mixing with the people of Ireland, and then they would return here advocates for the caufe of Ireland, fo that no Minifters would be able to refift the voice of truth. English Members would then be induced to pay more attention to Irish questions than at prefent they are able to do, from ignorance of the ftate of the country. He allowed this measure to be founded on a violation of the militia principle, but he took into confideration the attendant, circumstances. Minifters had, however, much depreffed his feelings, when they appeared defirous of withdrawing from the original grounds on which they supported the measure. Here was a bill to bring over 10,000 men from Ireland, but he was aftonished

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aftonished to hear that they had no idea of an interchange. They would then take away the country gentlemen of Ireland, and make no kind of return for it. He was forry to fee the great object thus weakened. But let it not be thought that Ireland, because she exhibits this inftance of her patriotifm, is really fatisfied with what has been done fince the union. The Irifh thought they had the authority of the King, by his roval meffage originating the union, and indeed that of Parliament too. for expecting fome further measures. After the folemn pledges they had received, he would ask what had been done for them? But while the Irish felt and expreffed their diffatisfaction, they would stand by England to the laft. They would never fubmit to a foreign force, or yield to the haughty defpot now hovering on our coafts. They would die with England if neceffary, or thare her laurels. But let not this be confounded with an idea of their being satisfied with their condition.

Lord De Blaquiere understood that the principle of the Secretary of State was, that of creating a larger difpofable force, and therefore, because he was friendly to the principle, he fhould vote against the motion which proposed to add to a limited force a number fo difproportionate to the regular force,

he Irish militia was formed by bounties, not by ballot, and was compofed of the very men who would otherwife be pro- . cured for the regular fervice. The militia was the very force Jeaft neceffary to increafe. He was defirous of an interchange of the refpective militias; but if not, he thought these new inilitias might be raised on terms of fervice for both islands, and in feparate regiments.

Mr. Alexander replied to fome of the obfervations of Col. Hutchinton, and cenfured the impropriety of adverting in irritating language to the union. He then noticed the conduct of two other right hon. Gentlemen (Mr. Fox and Mr. Windham), and their ftrange connexion in oppofition to Minifters. He heard continual outeries of the incapacity of Minifters; but thofe Gentlemen's wifdom feemed to confift in a perfect change, and their integrity in a mutual forgiveness, accompanied by a confeffion of having been in the wrong before. As to what had been faid about the union, Gentlemen who fupported it had feelings of honour as high as any others, and nothing but difunion could be the confequence to the country, whofe caufe we ought to fupport, by the provocation of fuch fubjects. He therefore condemned the introduction unneceffarily of fuch topics in difcuffion.

Mr. Windham defended the conduct of the noble Lord

(De

(De Blaquiere), who had been long in a military life, and whose opinion was worth fomething on this fubject, because he knew fomething about it. Much the greater part of what fell from the laft hon. Gentleman that fpoke, he could not reply to, because he did not understand it. He had heard a great many remarks on conduct and character, and fo on; and many complaints had been made about charges of the incapacity of Minifters. They thought they heard thefe charges in every thing that was faid of them. They were fomething like a man who had a favourite tune, and always began to fing it when he heard a drum beat. So many topics had been introduced into the debate, that he fhould, on fome future oppor tunity, fpeak at more length on feveral points.

Sir William Elford faid a few words against the bill.

Mr. Secretary Yorke explained that the bounties were to be paid out of the Treasury.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved, that what was before the union a charge on the public, would now go to the account of the united kingdom.

On the queftion being put, the numbers were

37-Majority 57.

The bill was committed, and the report ordered to be received the next day.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave notice of his in tention to move on Friday for taking into confideration partsof the petitions from Suffolk and Norfolk, refpecting imports and exports.

The Irish linen manufactory bill was poftponed till Friday, after fome converfation between Mr. Corry and Mr. Fofter.

Adjourned at one o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

THURSDAY, APRIL 12.

Counsel was farther heard for the appellants in the cafe from the Court of Chancery, Richardfon v. the Univerfities of Oxford and Cambridge. The farther confideration was deferred till Thursday next.

On the motion of Lord Ellenborough, the bill for enforcing the execution of the canons of the church, relative to the age of priests and deacons," was poftponed till the next day.

The