to be found at all, they must have an amend- I colony, and there ought to be, at a very early ment made in the Counties Act. The honour-date, a reduction in the number of local bodies. able member who last spoke suggested that the Act should be amended so as to prescribe the population and area to which a county should be limited. That appeared to be the proper remedy. Under the Loans to Local Bodies Act Road Boards were enabled to borrow £3,000 in one year. Counties, on the other hand, had exactly double that amount of borrowing-power, for they could raise £6,000; and he could well understand that, in a new district, where roads were essential to the prosperity and settlement of the place, a small sum like £3,000 in one year was totally inadequate. He knew the requirements of his own district, and therefore knew how very little could be done with £3,000 spread over twelve months. He thoroughly sympathized with the ratepayers in this particular locality, who wished to convert their road district into a county, and he would support the Bill because it did not seek in any way to increase the number of local bodies, but simply to substitute a county for a Road Board district.

Mr. MITCHELSON thought it must be very refreshing to honourable members to find that at last the honourable member for Masterton and the honourable member for Wairarapa were at one. If honourable members would look at No. 8 on the Order Paper, they would there find the secret of these two honourable gentlemen being for once agreed.

Mr. BUCHANAN said the honourable gentleman was entirely wrong. He had not thought of any other Bill on the Order Paper when he rose to speak.

Mr. MITCHELSON agreed with the honourable member for Wellington City (Sir R. Stout) that the House should have some expression of opinion from the Government upon this very important question. They had heard the Premier during the last three or four years, in his speeches on the platform in various parts of the colony, complaining of the multiplicity of local bodies throughout the colony, and the enormous expense of government that was thus placed upon the shoulders of the ratepayers. The honourable member who moved the second reading of the Bill omitted to inform the House as to the population and area of the district that would be comprised in the new countyinformation which honourable members should have. He considered that, instead of the House allowing an increase of local bodies, it should set its face against anything of the kind, and rather increase the size of counties, and so lessen the number of governing bodies. He would divide the House upon this question, simply for the reason that he totally disagreed with the repeated attempts which were being made to sever existing counties and create smaller ones.

Mr. SEDDON said that, having been appealed to by the senior member for Wellington City, and by the acting leader of the Opposition for the day, he thought he was called upon to state the views of the Government on this question. There was too much government in this

By such a reduction they knew full well that the cost of administration would be reduced. On the present occasion he thought that this matter had been arranged. When he saw the honourable member for Otaki seconding the second reading of the Bill moved by the honourable member for Palmerston, he came to the conclusion that it was one of those matters which had been arranged, and that there was nothing further to say about the matter. He would state to the House what it was the intention of the Government to do in regard to these Bills. In Committee, they would propose a clause providing that, within the limits fixed by the schedule, there should be only one local authority. In such matters they must take into consideration community of interest and natural boundaries, and within these limits there should be only one local authority. That was a scheme which required to be well thought out, but it was what the country wanted. As soon as that was done, the question of charitable aid would be settled, the question of the extreme cost of administration would also be settled, and the country would be locally well governed. The local bodies also wanted to have an assured finance. These, shortly put, were the views of the Government. In regard to the present Bill, it appeared to him that the people were agreed. The Government had had no word from them, and the surrounding districts appeared also to approve of the measure. That being the case, he did not think there was much room for objecting to the second reading of the Bill. He generally disagreed with the further subdividing of the colony.

Mr. BELL would like to point out that the Counties Act provided that any counties might unite by the will of the people, but it was provided in section 24 that no new county should be constituted without a special Act of the General Assembly. What was intended was that there should be no division unless a very special reason could be shown for it. The honourable member for Palmerston came to the House and, in a speech of two or three minutes, said this Bill would be convenient. It would be convenient for any Road Board to constitute itself into a separate county, to have a Chairman and like administration, a County Clerk, and all the other things. He had come to that House pledged to his constituents to oppose anything of that kind. If the request of the honourable member for Palmerston were granted, how could the House refuse a similar request made by any other honourable gentleman? He thought, perhaps, that some fresh provisions might be made in regard to granting borrowing-powers to Municipalities and other local bodies. To pass the present Bill would be a very bad precedent indeed. If they constituted these new counties they would gradually get into such a position that there would be nothing but counties where there were road districts at present. He hoped the House would reject the Bill; otherwise he did not see

how the House could reject the next Bill on the Order Paper, which was of a similar nature, or any other such Bills.

session, and was lost, he believed, by three votes, under a misapprehension, as many honourable members stated afterwards, as to Captain RUSSELL rose to oppose the what the Bill proposed to do. He would exBill. He disapproved entirely of the principle plain very shortly what the Bill proposed to do. of subdividing counties; and he would point There was at present in New Zealand an out to the House that the honourable meminstitution called the New Zealand Institute of ber for Palmerston, in introducing the Bill, Journalists. It was a voluntary association did not tell the House what the area of the formed by journalists. This Bill simply proproposed county was, nor what was its popu- vided that this voluntary association should lation, nor its rating value. The object in have a legal status; it provided that this the introduction of the Bill was to enable Institute should be incorporated. It did not the local body to double its present borrowing- ask for anything whatever from the Parlia powers. He was always opposed to borrow-ment, except the privilege of incorporation. a similar ing-he always had been; and he thought it He might state that there was would be recognised that those local bodies institute in England; there were several instiwhich had had most opportunity in that tutes of a similar character in America; and respect at present imposed the highest rates there were many societies and voluntary asupon the people in the localities. It was sociations in England that were incorporated now a question of rates, rates, rates, from by Royal charter, that being the way in which one end of the colony to the other. If they incorporation in such cases was generally done were to constitute new counties for no other at Home. There was no provision in our law for reason than to give local bodies increased incorporation by charter; so that incorporation borrowing-powers, they would simply be agreemust be done by Act of Parliament, passed ing to heavy taxation being imposed upon the for the purpose. He might also say this, as residents of the district for ever and ever, and he had said last year, in moving the second the inevitable result would be that they would reading of the Bill: that it was to be regretted wish to Heaven that they had a House with that they had not a general measure under backbone enough to put a stop to borrowing. which they could incorporate institutions of in the Supreme Court, just as they could inthis character by simply filing a memorandum corporate private companies or mining companies by filing certain documents in the Court or with the Registrar. The Bill asked that this voluntary Association of Journalists should be incorporated. Honourable members would see duties and object of the Institute. The inthat the preamble of the Bill recited the corporation simply said they might be incorporated, have a seal, and be able to purchase ceeding ten acres; they were to manage their land for the purposes of the Institute not exaffairs by a council and officers, hold meetings, and were to have by-laws. He submitted there could be nothing said against such a Bill as this. It was purely of a formal character; and he thought it a pity the Government had not taken it up as a Government mea

Mr. TANNER said that, as a matter of principle, he had always opposed Bills of this character, and he intended to continue to do $0. It appeared to him that the House would be showing a want of energy and pluck if it allowed this obnoxious principle of the division of local bodies to go on until the colony was overloaded with a multitude of local bodies, many of which at present already suffered from impecuniosity. Not a session passed but what ber of Bills of this character-Bills proposing to constitute separate counties by the continued division and subdivision of existing ones. Last session he remembered that there were several County Bills, and during the previous session there were a number of others, and the Order Paper was now already occupied with a number of Bills which evidently were introduced for the purpose of creating new counties; and some of these counties would be almost of infinitesimally small size. He felt that the House ought to take the matter in

honourable members had before them a num

sure. He felt sure that members of the House

generally would agree with him that any thing that would tend to form better esprit de corps among journalists, and tend to benefit the profession in any way, the Legislature should encourage. He would say that, in his The hour of half-past five having arrived, opinion, there was no class of professional men Mr. SPEAKER left the chair.

hand.

HOUSE RESUMED.

in the colony of more service to the colony than journalists. They could not exist as a demoThat was recracy without the newspaper.

Mr. SPEAKER resumed the chair at half-past quired so that the people should be educated.

seven o'clock.

NEW ZEALAND INSTITUTE OF JOURNALISTS BILL. Sir R. STOUT, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said this was not a new measure. It passed through the Legislative Council last year, and the only amendment made in the Bill was in its last clause. It had come up before the House for a second reading last Mr. Bell

They required them to know the news, and to know what was going on in the political world. The journalist was a man who had an immense power for good in his hands: in fact, he believed that no class in the community had more power than the journalist possesses. He could say this also: that, having been, in one way or another, connected with newspapers almost since his entry into the colony, having been himself editor and leader-writer, he

had had to do with journalists, though he had | Bill-room, that the Bill had been circulated at not to do with them now, except, perhaps, as twelve o'clock. holding shares in a paper; and he could say that, so far as newspapers were concerned, he had found amongst journalists just as good men as they would find in any class of the community, and not only as good, but just as noble-minded and as keen to do what was right.

Sir R. STOUT wished to explain that he had Buchanan just learned, from the clerk in charge of the | Button

"Whenever there shall be not fewer than thirty members of the College who are graduates of the University of New Zealand continuing on the books of the College, all vacancies thereafter occurring in the number of the Governors shall be from time to time filled up by the majority of such graduates present at a meeting duly convened for that purpose by the Board of Governors."

in future numbers of the Labour Journal | nance, 1873," which relates to the constitution such useful, interesting, and practical informa- of the Board, and make provision for an election to wage-earners as lists of trade-unions, tive governing body, to be elected by local councils, and labour bodies in the different bodies such as Town and County Councils, towns, dates and places of meetings of those Education Boards, agricultural and pastoral bodies, secretaries' addresses, and (with the associations, trade-unions, and professorial consent of the bodies) the more important of Boards, &c.; (2) a general measure, making the rules, such as recognised rate of wages, provision for elective governing bodies for all &c.; also, where practicable, the reports of similar institutions? He presumed his honourproceedings of meetings of unions and em- able friend would say that this was rather an ployers' associations? And will the Govern- important question. The ordinance which rement also provide each member of Parlia- lated to the constitution of the Board said, in ment with copies of the Journal? Since giving clause 18,— notice of the question he had had sent to him a copy of the monthly report of the Amalgamated Society of Carpenters and Joiners in England, and in it he found some satisfactory information in reference to a fair-wage clause in contracts. It said that the fair-wage clause was enforced in all municipal contracts "in the following places," and it went on to name about forty towns in England. Then it said,"The conditions and wording of the clause vary; some of the Corporations deal with the subject boldly, others in a half-hearted manner. The following is a copy of a notice appearing under an advertisement in the newspapers inviting tenders for the erection of some municipal buildings at Sheffield: The contractor will be required, under penalty, to pay all workmen employed by him in Sheffield, in carrying out the contract, not less than the standard rate of wages recognised by the Sheffield trade societies in each branch of trade, and to observe their recognised hours and proper conditions of labour. For work prepared outside Sheffield, but to be used there, he will be required to pay the minimum standard rate of wages, and observe the hours and conditions of labour recognised by the trade societies of the place where the work is prepared. If there be no such standard in such place, the Sheffield rate of wages and conditions of labour will govern the contract in that respect. The same conditions will apply to sub-contractors.'

·

In view of the hope of having that satisfactory clause inserted in both Government and Municipal contracts in New Zealand, he thought they should have some official organ in which such information, showing the standard rate of wages and conditions of labour, should be published.

The Hon. Mr. MONTGOMERY said there were two questions to be replied to. To the first part of the question he had to say that, if any of these bodies made application to the Labour Department, the Minister of Labour would consider the application and endeavour to meet their request; but it was a very large order the honourable gentleman wished executed. With regard to the second part of the question, the answer was "Yes."

CANTERBURY COLLEGE. The Hon. Mr. JENKINSON asked the Colonial Secretary, Whether the Government will this session introduce-(1) A Bill to repeal that part of "The Canterbury College Ordi

He

Now, he found in the last annual report, in the Chairman's statement, that the graduates of the University of New Zealand who had been educated at Canterbury College numbered 167; but after June, 1884, the Governors were elected by those graduates who remained on the books of the College; and it was imperative that the graduates should attend that meeting, so that there was no voting by proxy done. The matter of electing this Board of Governors was left to those present at the meeting. If he remembered aright, at the last election of Governors there were about forty votes recorded. In the year 1892 the Board sanctioned the spending of £36,654 ; and the election of that Board of Governors was left in the hands, practically, of forty comparatively young men and boys. thought that should be called attention to. He found also, in one annual report, that a gentleman's name appeared in one part of the report as a Governor, and in another part it appeared as an examiner. Further on still, they found in the same report that the examiners' fees amounted to £138. He thought that was also a matter the public should inquire into. It was recognised by most of the people, in Canterbury at any rate, that there should be a very great change in the mode of electing this Board of Governors, and that it should be put on a more popular basis. There had been protests lodged from time to time regarding the actions of the Board, in connection with the finances more particularly. He might mention that only lately one of the Governors, probably one of the ablest financiers and allround men on the Board, resigned his position as Governor simply as a protest against the lax methods and financial bungling of that body. The matter was certainly one which the Government should take in hand at once. He would probably be told that there were two questions asked here. The second was, whether the Government would make provision for elective governing bodies for similar institutions. He thought that was a matter in which the Government should move.