nator and a statefman; but, with all poffible deference for the noble Lord's abilities and opinions; notwithftanding every advantage of knowledge and experience; notwithstanding the noble Lord's amazing powers of oratory, I very freely confefs, that I cannot agree with his Lordfhip in a fingle argument he has urged in fupport of his amendment. Oratory is one thing, my Lords, and truth, reafon, and conviction another. When the matter the noble Earl has urged this night is feparated from the manner and oratoric powers which has accompanied it, it will moft certainly be found to contain nothing that can induce your Lordships to diffent from the ad-. drefs now moved. It is, in my apprehenfion, though urged with all poffible plaufibility, totally deftitute of any thing which bears the refemblance of argument. The noble Lord has, I prefume, been much mifinformed: otherwife he would never have afferted what I know myfelf to be unfupported by fact. I do not impute to his Lordfhip any intentional defign to miflead; but fpeaking of matters within my own knowledge, I hope his Lordship will excufe me for diffenting from him, and endeavouring to fet the Houfe right on facts, which, if not contradicted, might be prefumed to be true. I fhould not have, indeed, troubled your Lordfhips, if I had not looked upon myself specially called upon to explain what must have come under my own cognizance, in my official fituation, as prefiding at the naval department. It is rather a difagreeable task. There may be many ftrangers and foreigners prefent; and what paffes here this night, in difcharge of my duty, as an official man, may be wafted by the next poft to the continent; but the noble Lord's affertions, call for explanations, on my part. Left therefore, the public fhould be mifled, or that it fhould get out into the world, that the noble Earl's confident affertions, refpe&ting our navy, are juft, I fhall crave your Lordship's indulgence, for entering a little more, than ufual into detail.

I do not, my Lords, mean to controvert his Lordship's facts on mere memory, I fpeak from papers now in my hand from authorities not to be contradicted. The noble Earl afferts, that the whole of our naval home-defence does not amount to twenty fhips of the line, fit for the fea. [Contradicted.] I mean, that we had not twenty fhips of the line manned for actual fervice: I think, I report his Lordship's words accurately. [Again contradicled.] I understood the noble Lord in that fenfe: but fuppofing the fact to be as now explained, that we had not above twenty fhips of the

line fit for fervice, it will equally anfwer the purposes of my argument. I tell the noble Earl, that he has been mifinformed; and that he fhould not again credit those who have in this inftance fo groffly deceived him. I have the lift now before me; and I will venture to affure him, that we have double that number. We have now forty-two fhips of the line in commiffion, in Great-Britain; thirty-five of which are completely manned, and ready for fea at a moment's warning. When I fay this, I would wifh to fpeak accurately, and fubmit the whole to your Lordfhips judgment. Thefe thirty-five fhips, when their complements are full, require 20,890 men, feamen and marines included. Of this number, 18,240 are actually fhipped, and the remainder are ready as foon as called for. The deficiency is compofed of 2035 marines and 600 feamen, who are now at the feveral ports. The marines are on fhore, on purpose to improve them in difcipline, and the ufe of arms; two-thirds of them being nearly compofed of recruits; the 600 feamen are diftributed aboard the other feven fhips, whofe complements are not yet formed. Thofe feven fhips will require 4000 feamen and marines, in the proportion of 700 marines to 3300 feamen. Of the feamen, there are 900 already on board thofe feven fhips; fo that of the forty-two fhips of the line in commiffion, all found, provided, and well found, there are 2400 feamen and 700 marines wanting. The former can be procured at a very short notice, by the means of a prefs, or on an emergency, recalling the protections now out, and other juftifiable means, fhould the exigencies of the times make fuch exertions neceffary; and as to the marines, they could be completed by recruits, as in the inftance beforementioned. This information is fupported by documents not to be difputed. The noble Earl feems to doubt of our ftate of preparation against any fudden attack in America: As to that, I can inform his Lordship, that our whole force ferving under Lord Howe confifts of ninety-three fhips and veffels of war; fix of these are of the line of battle; befides which, there are eighty-feven frigates, floops, and veffels of 'force. The noble Earl has dwelt greatly on the ravages and infults of the American privateers, both in America and on our own coafts. As to the firft, the best answer will be, the great number of rebel veffels our fhips on the American ftation have taken, and the very few loffes we have sustained in thole feas; and as to the latter, the number of frigates and armed veffels which were requifite for carrying on the naval

ope

operations under Lord Howe, I acknowledge, ftript us of our frigates but care has been taken fince to remedy that evil and replace them. Thirty-four frigates and smaller vessels were before in commiffion, and employed on different services; ten have been built in the King's yards fince, thirty in private ones, befides twenty that have been purchased from the merchants, or are retained and paid as veffels of force; making in the whole between ninety and a hundred. From thefe facts, I do venture not only to contend that the noble Earl has been groffly deceived, but that we have a naval force now ready for fea, fhould France and Spain entertain any hoftile difpofition towards us, much fuperior to any they can muster. I believe they have not any fuch intention: but should the worft happen, I am perfuaded, from my own certain knowledge, that they have nothing able to cope with us in Europe, as our whole force now fit for, or on actual fervice, confifts of fifty-four fhips of the line, and upwards of two hundred frigates, floops, &c.

The noble Earl afked, after giving an account of the deplorable state of our navy, with what juftice I leave with your Lordships to now determine, where is the man of reputation in his profeffion would ftake his credit on any naval force we are able to fend out? I will anfwer his Lordship, that there is fuch a man [Admiral Keppel] to be found, who knows the prefent ftate of the navy, and is ready to ftake his credit on the iffue, and willing to meet the enemies of this country, if any fuch there be---as brave, gallant, and experienced an officer, as refpectably connected, and as nobly allied, as any in the fervice; a man in whom the noble Lord himself would wifh to confide, and of whom he entertains the moft exalted opinion.

The noble Lord fays, we have loft the port of Lisbon, and that Portugal is no longer our ally: this information, I muft confefs, is totally new to me. I know, by the laft return I have had from thence, the Invincible, a feventy-four gun fhip, was in that port; and unlets his Lordship has had fome fecret account, that he has been either loft or taken by an American privateer, I can hardly credit that we have loft the port of Lisbon: as to the other point, on which I prefume his Lordfhip meant ferioufly to fupport the affertion, I can anfwer his Lordship, that the Portuguese court has repeatedly given us the fulleft affurances of their friendly dif pofition; have expreffed an abhorrence of the unnatural conduct of our rebellious fubjects; and, as a further proof of the

fincerity

fincerity of their declarations, have forbid them to enter their ports; nay more, have confifcated one of their veffels for having endeavoured to disobey the proclamation, which laft circumftance excited the refentment of the rebels fo much, that one of their privateers, by way of reprifal, made a capture of a Portuguefe merchant-man, richly laden.

My Lords, from what I have now fubmitted to you, I am authorised to affirm, that our navy is more than a match for that of the whole houfe of Bourbon. I am not afhained to fay it, nor fhew my front on the occafion. There are many fronts in this Houfe, I perceive, [Looking over the way.] which feem now to be spread with joy and gladnefs; but I believe the time is not far off, when they will wear a very different afpect. I trust, we shall shortly hear intelligence from General Howe, that will occafion that change. I fhould, my Lords, be extremely forry, as prefiding at the admiraltyboard, if I permitted at any time the French and Spanish navy united, to be fuperior to the navy of this country; I fhould, indeed, be wanting in the difcharge of my duty. The noble Earl, who moved the amendment, affirms, that those powers bear hoftile difpofitions towards us; and have given the fulleft proofs of it by the underhand affiftance they have afforded our rebellious fubjects. I have ftrong reafons to believe the contrary; but fuppofing it to be true, would the noble Lord, under fuch circumftances of peril and diftrefs, as he reprefents the affairs of this country to be in, precipitate us into a war with thofe powers? I hope not. The truth is, we have, from time to time, preffed the court of France on the illicit trade carrying on in their ports with our rebellious fubjects; and when it became necessary to be more explicit, made the strongest remonstrances; the confequence of which was, that immediate orders were iffued, forbidding any American privateers to enter their ports with prizes. Thefe orders have been ftri&tly complied with hitherto. Two prizes were reclaimed, and recovered under the ordinance. It is not improbable, that fome very unjuftifiable transactions may have taken place, under a kind of connivance; but though it were fo, no friend to his country would wish to embroil us. But a time may come, when a full reparation may be obtained, for any injurious treatment we may have received from either France or Spain.

I cannot agree with the noble Lord's amendment on many accounts. What does it propofe? Terms, in my opinion, the most extravagant and disgraceful; to lay down your arms, and fubmit to your rebellious fubjects. Is this a VOL, IX.

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Earl of

language befitting the mouth of that great minifter, who directed our victorious fleets and armies to every quarter of the globe? Would he recommend to us to difarm, and fue for peace to the Congrefs, or the rebel General? [Here, as in the preceding fentence, he was defired to advert to the words of the motion, which were not for laying down our arms, or withdrawing our troops, but merely for a ceffation of hoftilities.] But take it in this way, my Lords, how can you treat with thofe as fubjects, who look upon themselves as a fovereign ftate, and claim independency? I readily accede to what the noble Earl faid, relative to his own fentiments of what appeared to him a juft ground of conciliation; but will the people of America agree with his Lordship on those fundamental grounds, the fovereignty of this country, and the act of navigation? I dare fay, his Lordfhip's most fanguine expectations do not go fo high. It is a way of thinking very different from the majority of thofe who will this day vote with his Lordfhip.

To conclude, my Lords, I am happy in having an opportunity of fetting his Lordfhip right. I am happy to have it in my power to inform your Lordships of the very respectable ftate of our naval home-defence; and that it should be generally known, that we have nothing to dread from France and Spain, but will be at full liberty to profecute this war to a fair, honourable, and happy iffuc. I fincerely approve of the propofed addrefs, in all its parts, and am as heartily againft any measures of procraftination or delay, which the amendment certainly would effect, if agreed to.

It was the misfortune, in the beginning of this difagreeable conteft, to adopt a mistaken lenity, to act timidly, to be too apprehenfive that the nation would not readily concur, or be fatisfied of the neceffity of acting timely and vigoroutly. If my advice had been taken three years ago, we had not been in this fituation now. I was for fending a proper force at firft; but one oppofed it with one fort of reafon; another, with another-plaufible indeed, but futile and delufive. Thofe apprchenfions were ill founded; the mifchiefs they occafioned are acknowledged, and will, I truft, henceforward be avoided. I have the moft confident hopes, that the first accounts from America will be favourable; and that the moft fure and certain means of enturing a happy termination to the prefent rebellion, will be, by a perfeverance in the measures recommended from the throne.

The Earl of Abingdon. Unhabituated as I am to public Abingdon. fpeaking, and the formalities of parliamentary debate, I fhould,