courfe take place; if on the other hand he should find difficulties relative to perfonal fituations, though now disclaimed, he might then resume his prefent employment; and upon ftating the grounds of difficulty to be with the gentlemen on the other fide, there was no doubt but he would receive ample fupport from the Houfe; but as matters now flood, it appeared to him impoffible that he fhould remain Minifter any longer under the prefent circumftances.

Mr. Powys. Mr. Powys paid his tribute of applause to the patriotic conduct of the noble Lord; for his private character he had already the greatest refpect, and his speech this night did his public character the greatest honour. For his own part, he was not one of those who would infift upon fecluding the noble Lord from a fhare in a future Administration; but fince he had himself fo difintereftedly and fo nobly expreffed a readiness to facrifice his own profpects to his country's good, he now confeffed that the fault would be the right honourable gentleman's, if he any longer refused to pay to the House of Commons that deference due to a branch of the Legislature. It gave him pain to fay it, but it was true, that, while his right honourable friend refused to refign, after what the refolutions of the Houfe had declared, and what had been faid in the courfe of the prefent debate, he and his right honourable friend must be two. His right honourable friend acknowledged that the confidence of the Houfe of Commons was neceffary to a Minifter; did he think that to refift that House of Commons was the way to gain its confidence? Was it not much more likely that he would gain it by facrificing his opinion to that of the House, and acting in conformity to its wifhes? There was no doubt of this; and therefore he was of opinion, for one, that his right honourable friend muft refign.

Ld. Mahon.

Lord Mahon faid, that his right honourable friend ought to refift the fenfe of the House of Commons, if by fo doing he could preferve the Conftitution. But the moment he faw the Conftitution was out of danger, then it would be criminal in him to oppofe the wishes of the Houfe; for he (Lord Mahon) was fo great a friend to the democracy of this government, that, except for the purpofe of faving the Conftitution, he would not fuffer prerogative to ftand in the way of the just rights of that Houfe. But when the House claimed a power of naming Minifters, it deftroyed the Conftitution; and that it affumed the right of nominating Minifters was very clear; for if the Houfe arrogated the right of negativing the King's appointment, and fo totes quoties, this would

amount in fact to a direct appointment. Now, with refpect to the safety of the Conftitution, he did not think it could be fecured until the India bill fhould be difpofed of; and when that should happen, and all the dangers that might arise from it adverted, then, but not before, he would advise his right honourable friend to refign.

way.

General Conway said, that the right honourable gentleman, Gen. Conat the head of the Treafury, had not yet given an explicit answer, though pressed even by his friend, a most respectable member, to declare then, whether or not he would refign. The noble Lord, it would feem, now put the refignation upon another event, and not upon the late refolutions of the House; and that was upon the fuccefs of the next India bill; which was as much as to fay, that if the House should differ from the right honourable gentleman on that head, then he would remain in office in fpite of the House. How this could be reconciled to decency or duty, he could not tell; but when he confidered the state of Europe, of our finances, revenues, and credit, and also the ftate of Ireland; and while Minifters remained in office under their prefent circumstances, as no one ftep could be taken refpecting these great objects, he muft fay it was dishoneft to remain in office, to the fufpenfion of all the great measures that these objects fo preffingly called for.

Mr. Powys faid the honourable gentleman was mistaken; Mr. Powys. he did not prefs his right honourable friend to give an answer now; on the contrary, he wifhed him to take time to confider and to confult; and he made no doubt but his right honourable friend would give to the House on Friday a moft fatisfactory anfwer, fuch as would meet the wifhes of the whole House, to the refolutions that had been laid before His Majefty.

Governor Johnstone condemned as abfurd, the wish to Governor unite all the abilities of the Houfe, and yet to exclude from Johnstone. the union the noble Lord in the blue ribband, whose abilities were so great and fo well known to the House. He admitted the abilities of Mr. Fox to be great; he allowed him, to be one of the greatest men in the world; but he was no greater than Julius Cæfar, who undid Rome. Oliver Cromwell also was a great man, and had led the House of Commons great lengths, but he overturned the Conftitution: this he thought would have been the effect of the right honourable gentleman's India bill if it had paffed, and it was prevented by the right honourable gentleman over the way;

and

Mr. Pulteney and Mr. Dempfter.

Mr. Beau toy.

and his continuance in office was no lefs neceffary, in order to prevent the bill from paffing in any other fhape with any dangerous claufe in it, than his going into office, or confenting to do fo, had been neceffary to defeat the first India bill. He declared he had no prejudice to the right honourable gentleman; fo far from it, that if there was to be an election of a King in this country, he would moft cordially give him his vote: but he wished to preferve the Conftitu tion from that euthanefia, to which he thought his bill would have led it.

Mr. Pulteney and Mr. Dempfter both fpoke: the former thought the House of Commons, or at least a small majority of it, when not fupported by the people, to be no formidable body at all. The latter thought that the first India bill would have been found lefs dangerons than the people imagined, if they were to look into the ftatute books, and fee what immenfe powers were vested in the Secretaries of State for the government of India; and when it was recollected what little ufe had been made of them, the House would not much regret the lofs of the fecond bill, which was for putting the controling power of India into nearly the fame hands, where it had been fo greatly neglected before.

Mr. Beaufoy spoke to the following effect: After a debate fo interefting as that in which for the last two hours the Houfe has been engaged, I ought, perhaps, to apologise in rifing for a purpofe, which yet, I believe, is not an unneceffary one; that of feconding the motion which a right honourable gentleman, who fpoke early in the day, has made; and though I differ from him effentially in all that he faid in the outfet of his fpeech, yet I am fo convinced not only of the truth, but of the great importance of the refolution he has recommended to the House, that I cannot prevail on myself to exprefs my affent to it merely by a filent vote. The refolution declares that the public revenue is defrauded to the extent of two millions a year. Of the truth of this affertion, thofe who have weighed the fpecific facts alledged in the report of your Committee, or who have examined the authentic papers contained in the Appendix, cannot entertain a doubt; and indeed the truth of it is fufficiently established by the opinion of the Commiffioners of Excife, that if the illicit trade were prevented, the prefent duties of the excife alone, on four articles only, thofe of tea, coffee, brandy and rum, would

would produce two millions per annum more than those articles at prefent afford.

Now if a faithful collection of the excife duties alone, and that too on four articles only, would produce two millions a year more than thofe articles afford at prefent, furely the Houfe will be far indeed within the bounds of truth, when they say that a faithful collection of all the excife duties, and of all the cuftoms, would annually produce that increase of two millions. The truth, then, of this part of the refolution being indifputably established, I cannot but indulge the hope that it will be adopted by the House; and I am the more anxious that it should be so, from a belief that the public will then draw from it two conclufions, both of them unquestionably juft, and, in these defponding times, of great confequence to the public credit of the kingdom. The one is, that except in a very few. trifling inftances, the failure in the revenue that has been fo much talked of and fo much lamented, is a failure in the collection of the duties, not in the confumption of the people.

The other conclufion is, that there is good reason to believe that the income of the State may be made co-extensive with its wants.

But it is not alone to the public credit of the kingdom that the effects of this refolution are confined; for it involves in it confiderations of the higheft moment to the manufacturing intereft, to the intereft of our commerce, to our naval ftrength, and to the general energy of Government. At prefent a confiderable part of the community, perhaps the most active and the moft enterprifing part, are employed, not in adding to the riches of the State by their manufactures, or the tillage of the foil, not in improving her commerce or increafing her naval strength, but in exporting the fpecie of the nation in return for the manufactures of France, or for the produce of the Eaft Indies, imported in the fhips of foreign companies, who obtain by this means the advantage of fupplying half the confumption of the English market; an advantage, by the way, without which thote foreign companies could not continue to exift. They are often employed too in combating the ships, and waging war on the fervants of the Governinent. Powerful from their numbers by land as well as by fea (for a fingle gang fometimes confifts of 500 men) and armed for the VOL. XIII. conteft,

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1

contest, they have established a law of the ftrongeft, on the ruins of every other law.

If from natural honefty, or a fenfe of the obligations of his oath, an officer attempts to discharge his duty, injuries and infults, and in many inftances lofs of life are his fure reward. Cruelties the moft favage fometimes mark their proceedings. One officer was taken from his bed, and in his own house, in the prefence of his family, was deliberately murdered; others maimed or difabled, cripples for life, are become warnings to the honeft to beware of doing their duty. With fuch dangers before him, the officer is compelled to acquiefce in the commiffion of frauds, which no courage on his part can fuccefsfully oppofe, no diligence is able to prevent; nor can we be furprised if in many inftances the officer becomes an affociate in the crime, and joins in defrauding that revenue which he finds it impoffible to protect. Under fuch circumftances fhall we condemn the conduct of the officer, fhall we remind him of the obligations of his oath? What will be his anfwer, will he not tell us, "Some blame I confefs is imputable to me, but is it not a reproach to Government, that an officer of fifty pounds a year cannot do his duty but at the hazard of his life?" I fear there would be much juftice in fuch a reply; and indeed what refpect will be paid to the executive government, when it is known that 100 veffels of warlike equipment traverse our own feas in defiance of our power. Or what reverence can be paid to the Legislature, when it is known that not only the moft expeditious, but the fureft, and in all respects the leaft hazardous means of growing rich is to violate the laws? I fay, Sir, in all refpects the leaft hazardous, for as things are now circumftanced, the revenue laws are ruin to the confcientious, but they are fure gain to the fraudulent dealer. Thus an illicit trade is established on the ruins of honeft induftry. The wealth of the State is seized by violence or purloined by corruption. The violation of oaths is confidered as a privilege of office, the benefit of which few men refufe, or regard as a matter of reproach. Government itself is held in derifion, and the laws are treated with contempt: furely the Houfe will agree with their Committee in thinking that these enormities do deserve the earliest and moft ferious attention of Parliament. Should the House adopt their refolution, it will encourage them to bring forward their plans for remedying the evils they have defcribed,