try, would be to push her conquefts to the South. But the right honourable gentleman had obferved, if this was the cafe, would not any man fee the neceffity of arming? For his own part, Mr. Grey added, he was not one of those who fought for war on fuppofitions. What the Emprefs of Ruffia fought was fimply this-the town of Oczakow and the country between the Bog and the Neifter; and how could it poffibly be ftated that the acquifition of this territory was fo material an acquifition to the Emprefs, as to make her formidable to the reft of Europe, or to Turkey? In fact, it was not very material for either of these objects. In the first place, with regard to defence against Turkey, that place was not of very great confequence. The Emprefs had pushed her conquefts to Mount Hemus, and the Grand Vizir had been left with ten thousand men. Upon what principle did they contend that this place was of fo much importance? Could it give her the navigation of the Nieper? According to the most accurate information which he had been able to obtain from fuch as were acquainted with those parts, and from the infpection of the best maps, it appeared that the Emprefs might poffefs the Nieper, without being in poffeffion of Oczakow. The acquifition of that place, therefore, was not of fo much importance at it had been reprefented. The country between the Bay and the Neifter was known by the name of the Desert Plains, which circumftance might give gentlemen fome idea of what importance that territory was likely to be of to the Emprefs of Ruffia. Although the country was barren, it was inhabited by fome Tartars, who plundered the dominions of the Emprefs; and in order to fecure herself against future attacks, he had claimed that place of defence for her own territory. Was there any thing unreasonable in this demand? When it was confidered that the Turks were the aggreffors in the war, could it be ftated that the terms were unneceffary, or unjust? Could it be faid that the acquifition of fuch a territory would prove of any material difadvantage to this country? But fuppofe it had been of ten times more importance than it really was, of what confequence was the Black Sea to Great Britain? He believed that it was the only fea which British ships did not navigate. Was it then to be fecured for the trade which this country was to have with Poland? He thought that the important trade of Great Britain carried on with Ruffia, must be greatly interrupted by the prefent war; and fure he was, that it would prove difficult to perfuade the country of the neceffity of war. Our trade with Ruffia was the moft advantageous of any to Great Britain; it furnished materials for our manufactures, and proved an excellent nursery for feamen. exports to Ruffia amounted annually to about two millions fterling; P 2 fterling; and our imports to the amount of one million, 1 he duties on the export trade amounted annually to the fum of 300,000l. In this trade upwards of 850 fhips were employed, all of them British, except four or five. Was it prudent or wife, therefore, to interrupt fuch a trade, to which was to be added, the immenfe expence of the war? Mr. Grey remarked, that if he quoted a refpectable autherity on this fubject, it was not merely for the fake of that authority, but really from thinking that his conduct was founded on the wifeft principles of policy and prudence. In 1759, when Great Britain was in alliance with the King of Pruffia, and when the latter was preffed by the victorious arms of Ruffia, he earnestly folicited Lord Chatham, as the only means of providing for his fafety, to fend a fleet into the Faltic. What was the answer of that Minister to his Pruffian Majefty? He confidered our trade with Ruffia to be of fo much importance, although it did not then amount to one third of what it does at prefent, that he refused to enter upon the very meafure which was now in agitation. This was the policy of Lord Chatham, and had been the policy of all fucceeding Adminiftrations: it had been the policy in 1770 and in 1783. If it was formerly unneceffary to the interefts of this country to oppofe the growing power of Ruffia, what new circumftance had arifen to make that an established policy? What had happened within the last fix months to alter the policy even of the prefent Administra tion? Why had they been affured, repeatedly, these three years, while the war between Ruffia and the Porte was carrying on. that the interefts of Great Britain were not at ftake, and that there was no probability of the interruption of the peace and tranquillity of the country? It was incumbent on the right honourable gentleman to fhew fome ground for the prefent war: till he did fo, on every principle of juftice and policy, the Houfe ought to refrain from it. Mr. Grey contended that it was neither just nor politic. He had, perhaps, gone too far into this fubject, and that what he had faid had been rather the repetion of what had been formerly obferved than any thing new. It had been done for the exprefs purpose of drawing fome anfwer from the other fide of the Houfe. He conceived that they ought to give fome reafon before they proceeded to the war. trufted that he had established all the points which he thought it was neceffary for him to infift upon. There only remained a fingle confideration, and that was, one way in which thefe refolutions might be treated. He meant to move a ftring of different resolutions, first of all stating the general interefts of this country, and the general principles on which war could be justified. Thefe refolutions alfo contained the He nature nature of our connection with foreign Powers; and laftly, as a conclufion from the whole, they afferted that the prefent armament was unneceffary. The firft refolution might be confidered as a truifm. If the first propofition which he fhould fubmit to the House were true, and the refult false, let the other fide of the House fhew that the conclufion did not follow. He did not wish to alarm the country, by representing that there was a want of refources, but he was fure that every addition to the burdens of the country, in the prefent fituation, must be severely felt; and in order to induce the people to bear them with chearfulness, that House ought to proceed on principles of justice and honour, and fhew the people that fuch burdens were really neceffary. If the confequences which he had drawn from the first propofition could not be fupported, let the right honourable gentleman fhew it by argument; but if the right honourable gentleman, as usual, endeavoured to wrap himself up in the veil of State fecrefy; if he ftrove to avoid what he could not anfwer, and to have recourfe to a previous question, and to the order of the day, let gentlemen confider well what they owed to themselves, and to their country, before they concurred with him in a measure which must be attended with ruinous confequences. Such a war could never do credit to the character of the country; it could rot he justified on the principles of either policy or reafon. He could not fit down. without previously taking notice of thofe doctrines of confidence which were every day carried to a greater extent, and which converted the Houfe of Commons into what was little better than the Parliament of Paris previously to the late revolution. If this doctrine of confidence was ftill extended, that House would ferve no other purpose but merely to approve and register the acts of the King's Minifters. Mr. Grey declared that it was his glory to announce, that he had attached himself by principle to his right honourable friend, (Mr. Fox) and to a fet of men not meriting the foul afperfions caft upon them, in a former debate, but on the contrary, deferving the praises of their countrymen for refifting, on all occafions, every principle which was unconftitutional. It had been his lot to ftand forward more than once against this blind confidence which had been claimed by the Minifter, and which many of his friends were willing to give him. Whatever Minister claimed fuch confidence, he should oppose him. To this every Member was engaged by every duty which bound him as a reprefentative of the people. He did not claim to himself any exclufive merit for having ftood forward on this occafion; he had not done it without the approbation and concurrence of his friends. He did not suppose that the fubject had received any weight because it was was propofed by him; the only reason why he flood forward then, as he had done on other occafions, being because it had been thought that it was better for the cause that the weakest fhould come first, and the ftrongeft follow, in order to make up for his deficiency, by their more effectual support. When they had engaged to wage war against Spain, he had the honour of cordially concur ing in an unanimous vote. When the convention of Spain was announced to that House, no man rejoiced at it more than he did; but he thought it was requifite that he fhould know whether the money which had been expended was neceffarily incurred or not. He conceived that it was not; but undoubtedly the Houfe had entertained a different apinion. It was not for him to arraign the Houfe for fo deciding; he hoped, however, that he should not be fuppofed to have acted contrary to his duty on the prefent occafion, although he had made a motion which proved unfuccessful. In the contest with Spain, fome grounds had been stated. An infult had been offered, and fatisfaction refufed. On the prefent occafion, they were defired to give the Minifter credit for every measure which he had propofed; they were to act on his bare word. This was no part of the neceffary confidence due to the executive Government, and he hoped that fuch confidence would never be given. They might reprefent it under the name of legal prerogative, if fo, they ought to be able to prove it by fomething better than mere affertion. Mr. Grey declared, that he had not the smallest objection to the Royal prerogative, and particularly to that part of it which enabled the Crown to make peace and war, and to manage foreign negociations; but he trusted that those were the best friends to the prerogatives of the Crown, who wifhed to confine it within its proper limits, and that it might not be fo ufed as to produce its own deftruction. It was originally allowed for the good and farety of the people, and if any contradiction arose between the good of the people and the prerogative of the Crown, it was not difficult to foretell what must prove the confequence. He hoped and trufted that the prerogative of the Crown would never contradict the duties of that House. It was the indifpenfable duty of that Houfe to enquire into the juftice of voting away the public money; and he hoped that it would never be confidered as invading the prerogative of the Crown. Minifters claimed the confidence of the House of Commons; but fuppofe that the House should afterwards be perfuaded that the war was impolitic and unjust, and that the measures taken deferved the fevereft punishment, might not Minifters come with the vote of approbation in their hands, and fay, "Can you, who have approved, come "now and condemn that to which you have already given your "your fanction? you have approved of these measures, and "therefore you cannot now blame us, or start objections "against their nature." Mr. Grey now concluded his remarks, with the following motions: "That it is, at all times, and particularly under the "prefent circumftances, the intereft of this country to pre" ferve peace." 2. "That it is neither reasonable nor just to take up "arms for the purpose of dictating terms of peace between "nations engaged in hoftilities, without any reference either "to the caufe of the difputes, or the circumstances of the " war." 3. "That the refufal of an offer of mediation, is no juft "caufe for war." 66 4. That during the progrefs of the war between Ruffia "and the Porte, and fince the taking of Oczakow, this "Houfe has received repeated affurances from the Throne, "That the fituation of affairs continued to promise to this "country the uninterrupted enjoyment of the bleffings of "peace. 5. "That convinced of the truth of the affurances which "we have received from the Throne, this Houfe has hitherto "confidered the interefts of Great Britain as not likely to be "affected by the progrefs of the Ruffian arms on the borders " of the Black Sea." 6. "That we are not bound by any treaty to furnish as "fiftance to any of our allies, except in the cafe of an attack "upon them.” 7. "That none of the poffeffions of this country, or of 66 any of its allies, appear to be threatened with an hoftile "attack from any foreign nation 8. "That the expence of an armament must be burden"fome to the country, and is, under the prefent circum"ftances, as far as this Houfe is informed, highly inexpe"dient and unneceffary." Major Maitland obferved that, in rifing, as he did, to fe- Major cond the motion of his honourable friend, he was well aware Maitland, of the prefent critical, important, and he feared that he was too much juftified in adding, calamitous fituation of the country. It had not been reduced to this ftate by any neceffity of protecting an ally, but by the unjustifiable measures and iniquitous conduct of the right honourable gentleman, in involving it in an ufelefs and unneceffary war. It was perfectly unjustifiable, inafmuch as no one good reason ever had or could be affigned for such a measure. The right honourable gentleman ftill in theory, whatever his practice. might be, had holden forth to the Houfe the language of peace; and they muft well know, that any Minister of this country, |