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mWi rbf ally was attacked. The honourable gentleman whcipeie last (Mr Pybus) thought that we were not bound hyxi treaty, though the whole of the argument had gone on ac ground that we were bound by the faith <\f treaties. T&rrtaty was a treaty of defence, and had a specific and eefermin'ite meaning; it obliged Great Biitain to go to war ealj after our ally had been actually attacked. It might &triy be contrasted with that extraordinary treaty lately entfred into in India, by which we were bound to make war ona specific Prince, till the Nizam and Mahrattas were to Wfatiated with plunder. That treaty went no farther, and Heaven knew that this was far enough! By the present system, vst were to take up arms whenever an opportunity stiould offer for the oppression of the test of Europe. He would adait, for a moment, that such a system was founded in justice and policy, and that the present war was not inconsistent w;th humanity; but still he was at a loss to know how it could be proved that Oczakow, in the hands of the Czarina, cotJd hurt the interests either of Prussia or of this country. ITie Court of Berlin had never been very supine or inattent're to her own interests, and yet the late King of Prussia hid guaranteed places of infinitely more importance to the Eœpiess than Oczakow, which had been in her hands for three years, without making any complaint. She had greatly trended her conquests, but the House had been assured, and it it had not been contradicted, they must suppose it was true, that stie was ready to give up every place, except Oci;bw and the country around it, Suppose that Constantinople had once more fallen back into the hands of a Chrtflan power, and some of the finest provinces of the world were3 little more civilized, was the King of Piussia most 14th; to suffer? But, after all, was the. power and aggranUKtnent of their ally their only object, and were they to ?1 no attention to their own domestic situation? This counts was flourishing, owing, in some degree, to certain regu"tions which had been made, and to the increase of commerce, the invaluable consequence of security; at the same time, •-cording to some opinions, and these n"t inconsiderable, ^expenditure had always exceeded pur income, and in no ■1[thad our revenue been such, but that in stood in need of most rigid economy, It was not our army, and the "-[fflberof sliips which we possessed, that could ensure our l^ttJ' An armament must always bring on this country a 'tr» heavy expence. What was it that called them to this ,ir< Holland was bound to them by her interest and incli^'on; Spain, it was evident, did not consider the conces"isstie made us to be of the fame consequence that we ai wd whoever attended to the state of France, would not R 2 expect

expect much harm from her, at least while she remained in
present situation. However they might disagree about the
lamiticslhe must undergo in passing from despotism to Iibei
they must all subscribe to the truth of the position, that
Government could be established in that country, wh
would not prove more favourable to the tranquillity of ]
rope than their old Government. This, therefore, wa
favourable moment for reducing our establishment, and
turning our attention to the cultivation of peace. Kut I?j
was nn enmity between Russia and the Porte, and we were
be undone if Cczakow were added to the eir.piie of Rui
the limits of which extended from Poland to Kamschatl
This, it was supposed, might he fatal to the commerce
Gteat Britain, or in some degree destructive to the lihert
of the Porte. Here, then, was the impending calam
which threatened u?, anc! which was a';out to add to t
burdens of a people already too much taxed. Being thoroug
]y convinced that the w ar was unjust and unnecessary, ai
that it was no way material to the interest of Great Britai
that Oczakow was in the possession of Russia, he should gi'
his warmest assent to every measure which could put an ei
to a war, from which he firmly believed in his conscience r
earthly gcod could possibly arise, and which must inevitah;
produce the worst consequences. Towards the conclude
of his speech, Lord North remarked, that even if the inrt
rests of our ally were concerned, we should pay some littl
regard to our own, particularly as, after so many years c
peace, it was still a question, which was the greatest, ou
expenditure or our income? He added, that we seemed ten
much inclined to trifle and procrastinate, and todefer the da'
of reckoning—

Tarda jiuunt, ingrataq', lempora, (jute spent
Consdiumuue morantur ageiidi gnaviter id, quod
Æque pauperibus prcdtjt, lecuplctibus aque;
Æquc negleclym pueris Jenibus que noccblt.

Lord Lord Brtgravc rose to explain, and denied the charge ( Belgrave. his supporting universally the idea of preferring partial to ge nend information; or unlimited confidence to necessary con fidence, such ;is it behoved that House to give, and such a it was requisite the executive Government should receive. Mr. Mr. Powys expressed his pnxions wishes that neither tfy Powys. zeal 0f t]le non]e Lord, nor the eloquence of the honourable gentleman who had seconded his motion for the previouj question, would be able to suppress the farther discussion oj the original question, whatsoever opinion the House mighl entertain of the string of resolutions which bad been openei by his honourable friend. They were bound by every dut


which they owed to their constituents to consider this question.
Asto ike grounds and principles on which the House had
add, they were bound to explain them to the people whose
np?fa:atives they were, and from whom they had received
imA important trust. Mr. Powys wished, that on the
Aywben His Majesty's message was taken into consideration,
jwitecf thanks had only been agreed to, and the consideration
sfthe justice and policy of the measure postponed to some
Bak day. On a former day, some gentlemen had contend-
cctor a certain degree of confidence being given to those
la whom the executive Government was committed, but
in implicit confidence was now mentioned. If this were to
tike place, it would prove infinitely more destructive than
the war which threatened the country, inasmuch as it would
gffeastahto the constitution itself! His Majesty's Mini-
£'ers themselves did r.ot claim support on that ground. Other
gentlemen had said that this was merely a measure of expe-
diency, ai;d that the national character' and honour were not
pledged. One honourable gentleman had observed, that if
tiie measure was not just and politic, the House ought not to
adopt it. Mr. Powys first considered the justice ot the case,
ini rcmarVed, that the mediation of Great Britain was nei-
ther called for on one fide nor the other, but that it had been
ctttrvided upon the parties. This fort of mediat ion was there-
fere inconsistent with those moral duties which ought to go-
wn the transactions of one country to another. Those
finciples had been exchanged for the more enligh.ened prin-
cijleof self-interest. How did Great Britain know but 'hat
fce was mating herself the involuntary ally of Russia? Was .
there any immediate danger from the present state of France?
They had been told that they should risk, nothing by the war.
The right honourable gentleman had contended, that the
least diminution of the territory of Turkey was a cause for
Great Rritain going to war. Granting that we were to at-
tain our end, could it secure peace to the world, or bring
about the restoration of permanent tranquillity? Would not
Rcssia feel herself disposed, on every favourable opportunity,
to retaliate upon. Great Britain? He desired that the other
fide of the House might meet them on fair ground; he would
allow them to deny the facts, but let them not flirink from
lifcuffion. The time must even come, when the right ho-
nouralilegentlf man would vote a supply to carry on this ar- 1
Smwm, and it was incumbent on the House to know what
were the object s for which the supplies ought to be voted.

Lord Rdrrave again rose to explain. He said, that by Lord implicit, he did not mean a blind confidence; he mt ant only Ee'.grave. fct Ministers ought to have a full, not a half support.


Mr.Ryder Mr. Ryder observed that, for his own part, he applaud the silence of Ministers, notwithstanding that the honoi able gentleman on the floor, and the rest of the gentlem who lpokeon the motion, had blamed that side of the Hou; because they shrunk from the discussion. It was easy fi gentlemen on the other side to use hard words, app'y the own opinion to them, and then draw inferences from th. opinion; but all this was to be considered as

"Vox, et pratcrea nibil"

He, for one, however, could not avoid thinking that fsi
Majesty's Ministers had acted wisely in not suffering them
selves to be provoked to reply, as they could not have don<
so without \iolating that duty which they owed their coun
try, and betraying her dearest interests. For a blind con-
fidence he never fltould contend; but he must fay, that a con-
fidence ought to be given to His Majesty's Ministers to 2
certain extent, not arising out of the obvious arguments
urged by Ministers, because it was evident that they could
urge no argument, without betraying their trust to the Pub-
lic. What could an argument from that side of the Houle
pn such a subject consist of, but a statement of the circum-
stances and progress of the negociation, which would render
it impossible for either party to recede or retract, if they
wished to do so, and consequently throw obstacles in the
way of adjustment: and would any man then fay, that such
a communication ought to be made? An honourable gentle-
man had declared, that His Majesty's Ministers, on the
present occasion, acted in a manner which would not have
b:en ventured upon even by the Ministers of France, whom
the honourable gentleman described as having been more for-
midable a year before the revolution, than in the glorious
reign of Louis XIV. This, Mr, Ryder observed, he could
not credit, as Ministers had done no more than their duty
compelled. It had been also argued, that calling for confi-
dence, without stating some information to the House, was
a perfect novelty. He was surprised at both these observa-
t ons, as the fame conduct precisely had been pursued over
and over again in our own country, In proof of this, gen-
tlemen would please to recollect the instance in 1716, when
armaments were sent into the Hal tic, and yet Ministers had
said no more to Parliament then than had been said now. In
like manner did they remember, that in the year 1726, when
Russia meditated the overthrow of the King of Sweden, Mi-
nisters preserved a like silence. The same thing had hap-
pened in 1735, when Poland was the subject. The same
confidence had then been asked and granted. Aster reason-


in| open these precedents, Mr. Ryder said, tliat as far as cor.sfcce went respecting the present object, that House batfaktady voted their confidence when they gave the vote of fspplj, and addressed His Majesty, assuring him of their iiipmi.

Mt John Thomas Stanley said, he had earnestly wislied for Mr. J.T. a opportunity of speaking, ever since the gentlemen oppo- Stanley, fcetohim, who had spoken first and second in the debate, iad sat down A kind of challenge had been thrown out to this side of the House by them, to produce arguments in opposition to theirs: this he thought could be done; but first he would fay, that he opposed the motion originally made, Mid would vote for the previous question; notbfcusehe deaied the truth of any of the propositions, some of which, cn the contrary, were incontrovertible, but becaule this was cot the time for them to be brought forward; and he would 2* readily vote against a resolution brought forward at a *rong season, as against one that he disapproved of in itwif.

He would now say, in oppositionto what had beenadvanced that his vote in favour of the address, a preceding evening, and the support he intended to give to the measures of rhe Administration on this occasion, were neither of them foundal on grounds of implicit confidence. He disdained the *crd, and so much did he dislike the idea of giving implicit tcnfidince to any man in a House of Commons, that had no ;rgnments suggested themselves to hi« mind, in addition tothe confidence which he owned might assist in determining

vote, he would have waved it all, and have given a defied vote against measures that tended to involve the county in a war.

He had not the privilege with many others of calling the "<ght honourable gentleman on the bench below him, a right Colourable friend; he was not in such habits of intimacy *.thany gentleman filling the high stations of office, as to *them biassed in his opinion, or governed by partiality. The confidence he gave, was not the confidence to which private friendship laid a claim; it was founded on what he of the Minister, from the public measures of the Mif'fter; and as these were anproved of, surely every indiviwalbad a right, without betraying the trust reposed in him 7the country, of giving a degree of confidence and credit toihe Minister who asked for it, and who declared, in the ^st manly manner, he held himself responsible for the use V might make of it.

He owned it had required all the strength of his mind to ^ist the specious eloquence and plausible arguments, which


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