and cause ought to be given before Minifters called upon that Houfe for a vote of confidence or approbation; while negociation was going on, he had no objection to confidence; but when the money of their conftituents was afked, it was conftitutional and proper to know upon what grounds it was to be given. In the former debate, it had been said, that the Members of the Houfe of Commons were counsellors of the Crown; but if the prefent fyftem of unlimited and blind confidence was to be liftened to, in what manner was it, unlefs it was meant to confine them entirely to turnpike and canal bills, that they could poffibly give any counfel or advice? He Mr. Yorke remarked, that gentlemen had argued as if we Mr. were at war, and as if Minifters demanded our concurrence; Yorke. whereas the fact was, that the King's meffage only afke! an additional naval eftablifhment, in order to ftr.ngthen a negociation which was began. Some had thought that an armed negociation was the fame as a war; but he differed from this idea, because that depended much upon the fituation of other Powers; and he contended, that it might be neceffary for Great britain to negociate with the fword at her fide. allowed that peace was defirable, but this circumftance by no means precluded the neceffity of war upon fome occafions. Various caufes had been given, and revenge amongst others, but he denied that to be any part of the fyitem of the prefent Administration. However, he could not avoid flating, that Ruffia, in politics, had been, for a very confiderable time, inimical to Great Britain. An idea feemed to prevail on the other fide of the Houfe, that foreign alliances were altogether improper. Now, he would afk gentlemen, whether, ferioutly, they meant to affert that we ought to form no foreign alliances? With regard to cur connection with Pruffia, he would likewife afk, whether that country did not affift us to prevent Holland from falling into the hands of the French? an 1 whether we did not then confider the defeat of the French cabals and the patriots at that time as a matter of very effential importance to us? An honourable gentleman had said, in ridicule, in a former debate, that Oczakow feemed to be the key to the balance of power in Europe; he would now ftate, that whatever Oczakow might be, it certainly was of importance that one fide of the banks of the Neifter fhould be in the poffeffion of the Turkish empire. With the conduct of Minifters he was perfectly fatisfied, and he knew of nothing which could induce him to with that they had acted otherwife than they had done; and a majority of the House having fo often fanctioned their measures, he certainly should ftill give them his confidence and his vote. He warned gentlemen against expreffing themfelves fo freely, if they really meant Lord meant well to the country; because whatever might be thought by any individual here, it was certainly improper to inform our enemies abroad, that the country refufed their confidence to Minifters, or to infinuate that they were weak and wicked. At prefent, probabilities were greatly in favour of the pending negociations terminating fortunately in favour of this country; neither did he perceive how their progrefs could be dangerously obstructed, except by too unguarded, and, certainly, groundless, cenfures against the proceedings of Administration. Lord Fielding believed that there never was an AdminiFielding. ftration who, if a their meafures were confidered, had fo little title to confidence as the prefent, who, upon all important occafions, had withholden from the Houfe, and the country, every point which could explain their measures, or fatisfy the people. In November laft they had demanded that an augmentation of ten fail of the line fhould be made to the ordinary peace eftablishment, without ftating any caufe; and fince that time, they had made an addition of fix fail of the line, without giving any one reafon for their conduct. Sir James Eríkine. Sir J. St. Clair Efkine obferved, that nothing could be more unconftitutional and alarming, than the established pofition of Minifters and their friends, that the Houfe of Commons had no right whatever to know the grounds upon which an armament was to be prepared, and additional burdens laid upon the people to defray the expence of it. Before any gentleman could vote away the money of his constituents, upon confidence in Minifters, and fuch vague reasoning as they had from the other fide of the Houfe, they must give up every duty to their conftituents, or inclination to attend to their interests. A very nice diftinction was attempted to be drawn by fome gentlemen between an armed negociation and a war; for his part, he confidered an armament like the prefent much more likely to produce war than peace; but they had gone farther, and faid, that the fide of the Houfe on which he stood wifhed to infringe upon the prerogative of the Crown, because they called for explanation, pending a negociation; now he contended, that it was not only right, but perfectly confiftent and conftitutional, for the Houfe of Commons to know what occafioned this armed negociation, before they agreed to fupport its confequences; and if this were denied them, and implicit confidence in Minifters infifted upon, he must think that all duty to conftituents was overlooked, and nothing remained of the privileges which the Houfe of Commons had always boafted that they poffeffed, by never voting away the money of the people, without a good and folid reafon why, but an empty name; and not the leaft fhadow of either right, privilege, power, or authority remained. 3 remained. The friends of Administration claimed confidence for an armament, and if they obtained that, certainly those who encouraged them to arm could not oppofe their going to war; and by thefe means, the Houfe, without any infor mation whatever, was to be duped, first to fupport an armed negociation; next, inoft probably, a war; and then bound to defray the expences with their conftituents' money, all upon implicit confidence, and becaufe afking for explanation, during a negociation, was thought by Minifters to be infringing on the Royal prerogative. As to foreign alliances in general, nothing had been faid againft them on that fide of the Houfe, but that the propriety or impropriety of contracing, depended entirely upon their nature and extent, and a great difference lay between treaties formed on schemes of fpeculation and rafh ambition, and thofe entered into for the defence of the country, or its allies, and other purposes that may promote its interefts and profperity. If it were poffible that the arguments ufed by the honourable and learned gentleman who fpoke lately, and all others on that fide of the Houfe, could have any effect, there was an end to all the beft principles of the conftitution, and a total desertion of every true and honeft argument which had ever been used in defence or fupport of that conftitution, which our ancestors and, he yet trufted, we gloried in poffeffing. The honourable and learned gentleman thought that the King of England fhould always negociate with the fword at his fide.Whether this was the moft moderate, plaufible, and leaft burdenfome way of fecuring peace to the nation, he would leave to the Houfe to determine. But, the meaning of all the arguments ufed by the Minifter's friends on this point, seemed to be, in the firft place, a blind and implicit confidence; in the next, an idea that we ought to follow Minifters in all their wild profpects, whatever they might be; and laftly, that we are to be arbiters to all Europe, and dictate to every nation our own terms. If fuch was the idea of negociating, with a view to preferve the general tranquillity of Europe, he hoped that the Houfe would refolve to abandon it at once, and act more rationally and more conftitutionally. The House had been told, what he thought was still a greater and more important breach of their privileges, that withholding the fupplies to carry on an armed negociation, though no grounds were stated to establish the neceffity of it, was infringing upon the prerogative of the Crown. In this mode of arguing, he afferted, that all the privileges and authority of Parliament were demanded to be facrificed to the Crown, and by preventing them from interfering when they had the power to do it, any attempt afterwards must be unsuccessful. He compared the fituation in which the Houfe of Commons : VOL. XXIX. Ꮓ was was placed to the Lion in the fable, who having paid his addreffes to a young woman, her father advifed him to have his teeth drawn and his nails paired, that he might be the more acceptable to his favourite; the lion confented, and having fubmitted to the operation, found himself incapable to obtain the object of his wifhes, because he was deprived of all power to bring the father to confent. As to precedents, none had been, or could be mentioned, which were applicable to the prefent queftion. Since the acceffion of the Brunswick Family to the Throne, there never was an inftance of any armament which concerned the British interefts, or any supply to defray the expence of arming being asked, without previously communicating to Parliament the causes for it; and all meffages from the Crown upon fuch occafions, had ftated fpecifically the grounds upon which application was made to the Parliament. He approved of defenfive alliances, without admitting that by entering into a defenfive alliance, we were bound to interfere in all the quarrels of our allies. It was no folecifin in polities to advance, that our entering into defenfive alliances with every ftate in the world, could not be productive of any harm. He could not conceive, except we had abfolutely made an offenfive treaty with Pruffia, that there exifted any right to call upon us now to go to war with Ruffia; but, according to the doctrine of confidence, whatever the treaty was, the Houfe of Commons were neither to read it nor understand it, but must take it upon the word of the Minifter, that there was a treaty out of which a fystem arose, which obliged us to fupport Pruffia, to prevent the aggrandizement of Ruffia. He confidered Oczakow as only a fmall indemnification to Ruffia for the blood and treasure which fhe had loft in a tedious and expenfive war, and thought the demand, on our part, that fhe fhould relinquish that conqueft, as unreasonable as unjuft, especially when all the world believed, that the war between Ruffia and the Porte was inftigated entirely by us and the King of Pruffia. He then adverted to the growing profperity of France, and the commercial benefits that other countries would gain, when we were deprived of the Ruffian trade, and he did not altogether fubmit to the argument, that we were to be equally well fupplied with naval ftores from Poland, by commanding the navigation of the Neifter. Our Ruffian trade he confidered as of great confequence, and putting 600 fhips, and their crews, out of employment, was an object worthy of ferious attention; the conduct of Ruffia, and her demands, as far as they were known, feemed to be dictated by unexampled moderation, while ours exhibited directly the reverfe; and he must infift that the barriers of the conftitution were broken down, and this country degraded in the eyes of all Europe, when they were told that it did not become the House of Commons to appoint a Committee to examine the finances of the country, or to make any inquiry into the conduct of a weak or wicked Adminiftration, left other countries fhould know that weaknefs, and take advantage of it. Mr. James Murray difagreed with those who argued against Mr. James. foreign alliances. He was doubtful whether an alliance with Murray, Poland might not be as beneficial to this country, as an alliance with Ruffia. He faid that Oczakow commanded the navigation of the Dnieper, being only two miles diftant, though it had been otherwife ftated by fome gentlemen; he feemed to 'think that the question was argued as if Poland was in the poffeffion of Ruffia, which was not the cafe; and he next ftated fome particulars relative to the partition treaty fettled at the well-known interview between the late Emperor and the Emprefs of Ruffia. The Earl of Wycombe deprecated the war which was likely Earl of to take place against Ruffia, as well as the myfterious and Wycon.be contemptuous filence which the Minifter fcreened himself under, and the unwarrantable evafion of every kind of explanation upon a fubject of fo great magnitude. The opinion which he expreffed was not merely his own; for he would affert and maintain, that the opinion of the Minifter's conduct, and the unhappy ftate of the nation without doors, was precifely the fame. While we pretended to be fo anxious concerning the balance of power, and were taking fuch extraordinary steps to preferve it, it would not be amiss were we to pay fome attention to our commercial interefts at home, left for one article, during our ill-conducted and madly extravagant armed negociation, we fhould fee the Ruffian trade carried on in American bottoms, and fhips of other nations, while ours, which brought in a very large revenue to the country, and was a good nursery for feamen, were entirely unemployed. Mr. L. 4. Grant contended, that the meafures of Admini- Mr. L. A. ftration, fo far from being, as was groundleffly and injuriously Grant. infinuated, either weak or wicked, were upright and fuccefsful; and that, furely, the good opinion of the country, which had attended them, entitled them to the fulleft confidence, which, he hoped, they would have; and if a war fhould be the confequence of the prefent negociation, which seemed to be what gentlemen on the other fide most dreaded, he avowed that it was not occafioned by the conduct of Adminiftration, but by the oppofition which had been made upon this occafion; and the prefent motion he confidered in no other light than tending to impede and embarrass the measures of Government, without any folid or fubftantial ground for that oppofition. He was not, perhaps, entitled to argue from Z 2 his |