The Mafter of the Rolls rofe to oppofe the motion, and en- Mafter of tering into a long train of legal arguments, confidered it as the Rolls. a demand that the House ought not to comply with. He faid, he looked upon the fubject to be of as great importance, as gentlemen on the other fide feemed to do; but he thought any attempt to repeal the test act, as far as it regarded members of the church of Scotland, an infringement upon the treaty of union, and therefore reprobated the doctrine laid down that day. The learned gentleman, who had spoken last, seemed to think it might be altered or repealed at any time; he wifhed to know, if he had the fame opinion of the act 13th of King William. In his own opinion, after the treaty of union, both were irrepealable. When the act of occafional conformity was repealed, two claufes were proposed to be introduced for protecting Scotland from the effect of the teft act, but were negatived. The Master of the Rolls went through the hiftory of the times, just before the act of union was effected, and mentioned the part taken on that occafion by Lord Cowper, who was Lord keeper of the feals at the time; deducing from the whole, that the matter had been maturely weighed originally, and ought not to be changed without fome 'very ftrong cafe, indeed, could be ftated to induce the House to entertain fuch an idea. He however, allowed that the Scotch clergy deferved all the praises that had been bestowed on them.

Sir Adam Ferguson rofe to take notice of the expreffion of Sir Adam the honourable and learned gentleman, who had just fat Ferguson. down, who had called the application a demand. A demand made in a difrefpectful manner, Sir Adam faid, he always would refift; but he must beg leave to differ a little from the honourable and learned gentleman on the prefent occafion; for there furely was nothing peremptory or difrefpectful in the prefent application. Sir Adam then proceeded to declare that he was as little influenced by party motives as any of his honourable friends who had fpoken; and thought it his duty to speak upon the queftion which had been so ably treated by the honourable gentleman who brought it in. His honourable friend oppofite to him (the Lord Advocate) had faid that the laity of Scotland had not been confulted, nor had they complained; and that their opinions ought to have confiderable weight, even if the clergy were unanimous. From the very conftitution of the General Affembly, he imagined that a very great and a very well informed part of the laity had an opportunity of difcuffing and giving their judgement upon this meafure. He was not a Member of the General Affembly, himfelf, but he knew that many refpectable gentlemen in that House, and belonging to Scotland, were Members of it. There certainly were fettled by

Mr.

the treaty
of union two diftinét churches for Scotland and
England; but he did not believe, that any man would fay
there were two different religions eftablifhed in Great Bri-
tain. The fact was, that their doctrine was the fame, and
the only difference was in ceremonies, and the form of
church government; and he contended, that the Members.
of both churches were equally entitled to the benefits of the
union, without renouncing the established religion of the
country, in which they were bred; for certainly it never
could be meant that a man fhould be debarred from civil
offices in any part of the country, because he did not take
the teft impofed by another part of the country, which he
could not do, without renouncing the religion he had been
brought up to. All the meaning of a qualification, he con-
fidered to be a folemn declaration, that he does belong to the
eftablished religion of the country, and is intended as a
check on Popifh recufants, and not on Prefbyterians. With
regard to the teft act, he faid, Scotland had nothing to do
with it before the union, for then Scotland was a kingdom,
as foreign as any other to England. The Scotch had no
tefts, and wifely avoided them, yet his honourable friend,
from his official fituation, must be a Member of the General
Affembly, and muft. there make a folemn declaration,
(ftronger, in his opinion, than an oath) that he belonged to
the church of Scotland, and would adhere to its doctrines
and difcipline. Now, if his honourable friend was to be ap-
pointed to any official fituation in this country, he muft
take the facrament according to the rites of the church of
England; and it perhaps might, to him, be a difficult fitua-
tion to be in. For his part, he could fee no objection to
communicating with the church of England, though he had
been bred to the church of Scotland; but neither he, nor, he
believed, his honourable friend, would chufe to make a fo-
lemn declaration that they belonged to a church, which they
had before made a fimilar declaration they did not belong
to. The honourable Baronet concluded his fpeech with fome
farther obfervations on the treaty of union.

Mr. Dundas faid, he could not give a filent vote on a mo. Dundas. tion to which, though made in confequence of an application from a body of men whom he had long known to be perfons of the most worthy character, refpectable for their learning, and the purity of their lives, and zealously attached to the Britifh conftitution, he must give a decided negative; and were he to agree to the doctrines which he had heard that day, he must conceive himfelf endeavouring to get the better of a treaty, by which he and his country had obtained benefits and enjoyed privileges, which they ought never to forget or treat with ingratitude. As a Scotch Member

Member of Parliament, and confidering himself as a reprefentative of this country too, he must fay, that if fuch attempts prevailed or fucceeded, the diffenters of England, on the refufal that had been given to their different applications for a repeal of the test act, had been unjustly, harshly, and cruelly ufed indeed. As fo much had been faid about the test act, and the treaty of union, he must take the liberty of ftating to the Houfe the true and precife fituation in which Scotland was, with regard to the test act, as that period of hiftory, which he well knew the right honourable Baronet, who spoke laft, was not unacquainted with. It was certainly known to the Scotch nation, that the test act existed in England, as the debates that enfued in their own Parliament, previous to the fettlement of the treaty of union, clearly demonftrates. For when the articles of the treaty were fent to Scotland, and before they were returned to England, several propofitions were made in the Scotch Parliament for relieving the Scotch from the effect of the test act, which were all, after serious debate, rejected; and in order to prove why they were rejected, and the propriety of that conduct in the Scotch Parliament, he would plainly ftate who were the parties that wished to infert that article into the treaty of union. The party who wifhed not to infert that article, confifted of those who were friends to the revolution, friends to the revolution principles, friends to the Hanoverian fucceffion, and friends to the treaty of union; in fhort, they were all the great whig families in the country. On the other fide, thofe who wifhed to have the Scotch relieved from the test act, were the enemies to the revolution, the enemies to the revolution principles, the enemies of the House of Hanover, and those who wanted to impede and prevent the treaty of union; and what was more, confifted of people who were no friends to, nor held any communion with, the church of Scotland. This, Mr. Dundas ftated, came out, by publishing the names of those who divided on the different propofitions that had been debated in their own Parliament, fo that the truth being known, they acted like wife men, and distinguished their friends from their foes, by which means the union was brought about, and the conclufion certainly was, that if a different conduct had been purfued, no union would have taken place. Thus, the Scotch being fully informed concerning the test act, previous to the union, and having voluntarily agreed to it, any attempt to get free of it now, would be, in his opinion, playing a fhameful game at faft and loose with England, and retreating from our contract after we had got poffeffion of great and invaluable benefits which the could not retake from us. In public transactions, VOL. XXIX. 3 B

it

Mr. Fox.

it was a kind of chicane, which gentlemen would never allow themselves to be guilty of in private conduct. With regard to the declaration made in the General Affembly, and referred to by the honourable Baronet, he certainly had figned fuch an one; and when he accepted another official fituation in this country, had conformed to the test act; but would not allow that his doing the latter was any dereliction of the religion that he had declared himself to adhere to, but only fhewed his opinion to be against any objections to communicate with the church of England, and that he thought each of the churches beft adapted to the country in which it was established. - There were, he faid, no tefts in Scotland; and when a counter teft had been proposed, it was very wifely refufed; and for this reafon; that the eftablifhed religion of the country had nothing to fear from epifcopacy. "No," faid the fages of the Prefbyterian church, we have nothing to fear-our church is fecure "from all attacks-its foundation is folid and impregnable"for it is built upon the rock of poverty, and is not to be "fhaken, even when affailed by the moft violent winds, or "boisterous forms. But far different is the fituation of the "English church; fhe has her Archbishops, Bishops, and "Dignitaries, extenfive fees, and profitable livings; and when "the obferves fo many of us poor Prefbyterians croffing her

66

borders, and penetrating into her beft provinces, has more "reason to be alarmed, and of courfe, more need for tests." Mr. Dundas enlarged upon this, and took notice of the argument of Sir Adam Ferguson and feveral other gentlemen who had fupported the motion, to which he faid he felt himfelf obliged to give a direct negative.

Mr. Fox next rofe and faid, that although he had introduced a motion for the general appeal of the test act, and had declared him felf ready to move, or to fupport such a motion, as often as thofe who felt themfelves aggrieved by that act, should think proper to bring it forward, he could have wifhed rather to hear the arguments of other gentlemen on the prefent occafion, than to repeat arguments which he himself he perhaps already ufed. There were in this country various defcriptions of men, with respect to the opinions they entertained on religion: Some profeffed themfelves the friends of toleration in the utmost extent of the word; fome of toleration in a limited sense; fome of establishments, and fome of public worship independent of eftablishments. He profeffed himself the friend of toleration, without any reftriction, and at the fame time of an established church; and every argument that could be advanced in fupport of either, was applicable to the fupport of the prefent motion. Notwithstanding all that had been faid of the hiftory of the

3

union,

union, the difcuffions, and the acts of Parliament, that preceded it, there appeared to him a confiderable degree of doubt, whether the teft act did or did not apply to Members of the church of Scotland, and therefore he thought the motion for going into a Committee to enquire how the law ftood, extremely proper. Thofe who contended, that by the act of union the teft act was meant to apply to Members of the church of Scotland, viewed the queftion only on one fide. They called in the evidence of hiftory to prove, that if it had been understood, that the teft act was not to be thus applied, the people of England would not have confented to the union. It was juft as fair for him to take the other fide, and contend, that if it had been understood that the teft act was fo to apply, the people of Scotland would not have confented. That Scotland had derived great advantages from the union, would not now, he apprehended, be called in queftion. That England had alfo derived great advantages, was no lefs certain. The advantages, perhaps, were equal; but it was no panegyric on the act of union, that the prejudices of both countries were fo ftrong at the time of concluding it, as to prevent the fair and open difcuffion of all the confiderations that ought to have entered into it. It had always been contended by the violent friends to the test act, and the violent friends to that act, (without having taken much pains to enquire who they were) he fincerely believed to have been generally the enemies to every thing that was. great and good; had always infifted upon it, as fo intimately connected with the civil and religious conftitution of the country, that it could in no cafe be given up; and therefore that it must neceffarily have been included with respect to Scotland in the act of union. Mr. Fox then went over the material circumftances of the union, from which he inferred, that the point was at least doubtful. There was no mention of the test in the act of union, afd fuppofing that there had been a teft in Scotland previous to the union, of which alfo no mention was made, would it have alfo followed that fuch a teft must apply to both countries? This, he thought, would hardly be maintained, certainly would not have been as ftrong in the one cafe as it was in the other.

People in this country were too apt to confider the people of Scotland as having come to them; as having been annexed to the Crown of England in the nature of a province; whereas, in fact, the two countries treated and contracted as two independent kingdoms, which they really were; and whatever right or privilege was fecured to the one, was equally fecured to the other. The establishment and defcription of the church of Scotland was as much fecured in law, as the establishment and defcription of the church of

3 B 2

England.