are not to wonder at the ill confequence that we may fee arife from it. If a Court of law was neceffary, which he denied to be the cafe here, it was as neceffary that people converfant in the law fhould prefide in it; or else, what did they do; they constituted the power, and then, by placing it in hands that know not how to use it, they legalized the oppreffion which enfued. How did the Court, propofed by the present bill, differ from the Court before established, he said, and how did it redrefs the complaints fo justly made against it? The Court was not to confift, indeed, of the fame number, but would moft probably confift of the fame people. The time of holding the Court would be the fame; the fummary way of deciding without a jury the fame; and the fentence as final. Where was the difference then between thefe Courts? The difference was this, Mr. Baftard said, that powers were given to this Court far beyond those exercifed by the former. In the former, the property only was liable to be attached, in this the perfon as well as the property was liable. He afked for information, if this Court was to put the bankrupt laws into execution; or if after the feizure of the property, the perfon alfo was to be feized, and remain in prifon for life? This Court alfo, he said, was to affume the powers of the Vice- Admiralty Court, to annihilate it for the time, and to take cognizance of every thing, by fea as well as by land. There was a difference, which he was ready to acknowledge was for the better; that was, the paying the Judges a certain falary, and not permitting them to pay themselves as they did in the former Court, by the fees which they exacted from thofe who applied to it. As the Governor would be almoft a nominal officer, fhould this bill pafs, Mr. Baftard faid, he wished to argue this with a view to the fifhery only, and not with any view to the colony, for in that light only could he confider it of any advantage to this country. if he were told that the fishery and the colony were fo blended, that this bill was neceffary to anfwer the purposes of both, he fhould not hefitate to fay, he wifhed dittinely to feparate the one from the other. It was impoflible they could both exift together, as the one rifes, the other muft fall; and as they had eftablifhed the colony, they would lofe the fifhery. What had been the cafe of New England? As foon as it was eftablished a colony, they did, what it might have been fuppofed they would do, they took the fisheries into their own hands. If he were asked, what! leave 30,oco inhabitants there without any law? he would fay, that 30,000 inhabi tants ought never to have been permitted to have remained there, and that we should rather make regulations to induce them to return here, than to purfue a fyftem by introducing

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Courts

Courts of judicature, and civil establishments, that might
induce them to remain there. Of fo much confequence had
this fishery been efteemed, and fo much had it flood in need
of affiftance and encouragement from this country, that
bounties had been granted to them for that purpose. So
many regulations however, fo many clogs had been impofed
on it, and fo exhorbitant and oppreffive had been the fees
taken by the officers established there, that within these last
two years this trade has confiderably decreased; and he
would venture to fay, that if thefe regulations, thefe impe-
diments, thefe clogs were removed, the trade would readily
give up the bounties granted to them. Mr. Baftard faid, he
must take notice of the conduct of government refpecting
the trade. Two bills had been brought into Parliament, the
first to oblige the merchants under the penalty of two hun-
dred pounds, to obey the orders of the Governor in quitting
thofe parts of the island, the use of which were confirmed to
them by treaty, and to leave the valuable fisheries there.
This bill was brought in at the end of the feffion, when
the trade had no opportunity of being heard against it, and
after they had failed with a power, as they thought, of ex-
ercifing the fame right they had done the year before.
before. The
other bill was now brought in at the end of the feffion, at a
time when it was impoffible for those concerned to be heard
in the manner they ought to be heard against it. He had
thought it his duty, he faid, fituated as he was, to fay fo
much in oppofition to a measure which he made no doubt
other gentlemen would concur with him in thinking highly
prejudicial to this country. Mr. Baftard concluded with de-
claring, that he was forry to have taken up fo much time of
the Houfe, when the matter might be compromized in the
very fhort queftion-will you have a fishery, or a colony?

Attorney The Attorney General declated himself fomewhat fuprized, General. that any complaint fhould be made of the bill then under confideration. It founded very harfhly, he faid, in the ears of that Houfe, that any defcription of His Majefty's fubjects fhould be without the means of obtaining a judicial decifion of their difputes; and fuch was the fituation at this moment, of His Majefty's fubjects at Newfoundland. It was with a view to remove this ground of grievance that he had prepared the prefent bill, the object of which was merely to enable His Majefty to fend out a gentleman of the law, with two affeffors (the latter to be appointed on the fpot by the Governor) in order to form a Court of justice, the functions of which would be folely confined to the power to fettle debts and mat'ers of account. It was true, as the honourable gentleman ftated, that a former Court had been established, and upon accurate examination of the Governor's

vernor's patent, Mr. Attorney faid, he was rather apt to think without fufficient legal authority. The first was, the Governor being an Admiral, had naturally bent his mind more to the confideration of nautical subjects, than those of a judicial nature; and as his patent empowered him to appoint Judges, had taken it for granted it authorized him to appoint Courts likewife; which was an error, he the more naturally fell into, as he faw the want of fome institution of that fort. From the nature of the trade to Newfoundland, the Attorney General faid, there were many fervants and few mafters, difputes confequently muft frequently arise, and hard indeed would be the lot of their fervants, if they were left wholly at their masters' mercy. He instanced one cafe, and he faid he could ftate many others, to prove the want of a Court fuch as that which the bill authorized, viz. a Court to fettle debts and matters of account merely. It was that of a merchant, who threw his man into prifon for 120l. when in looking to the cafe, it appeared as clear as the fun at noon day, that the mafter was indebted to the man twelve pounds. At this very time, Mr. Attorney faid, the poor at Newfoundland were calling out for a Court of juftice, and the Governor had defired to have one instituted; and he must fay he did not think it quite feemly for the oppulent fettlers to oppofe a bill, which had for its object the inftitution of fuch a Court as was beft adapted to the nature and circumstances of the fituation. It was to fupply the defect of that former appointment, and to eftablish a Court legally, Mr. Attorney faid, that he had drawn the prefent bill; and he had framed the Court upon the model of that calculated for Gibraltar, which had been framed by the late Sir Dudley Ryder, and the prefent Lord Mansfield, and which had given general fatisfaction. He agreed with the honourable gentleman as to the diftinction which he had made between the fishery and the colonial inhabitants; the latter could have no property but under the act of King William, and it was the diftrefs of the former that conftituted the neceffity on which the bill had been introduced. Mr. Attorney concluded with reminding the House, that being a bill of experiment, it was to continue in force one year only, that the head of the Court would be a gentleman profeffionally bred, and the Court would have to interfere in no points whatever but in fettling debts and matters of account.

Mr. Baflard rofe, in reply to the Attorney General, and Mr. began with faying, that the honourable and learned gentle- Bastard. man had mifconceived the grounds of oppofition taken by the honourable gentleman behind him. That honourable gentleman had not ftated a complaint against there being any

Court,

Mr.Serje

fon.

Court, but against the fitting of a Court during the fishery season. The former Courts established in the island had, Mr. Baftard faid, on that very account proved the fource of great inconvenience, and done more harm than good. In confequence of the restraints put upon the fishery trade of late years, he declared, that it had greatly decreased, as he would convince the House from a statement which he held in his hand. Mr. Baftard read the particulars to the Houfe, and it thence appeared that in 1788, there were 630 vessels employed in the trade, which were reduced 103, and at that time the number of men was 5177, whereas there were now only 4270, employed. There was a decrease alfo in the bank veffels of 148, and the men were no more than 1558. The decrease in the boats reduced them to 118, and the men to 476. Mr. Baftard faid, he knew that the vessels would be less this year than the laft, on account of the Court about to be established. He wished the honourable and learned gentleman would confult the trade on the subject, when they would tell him what was the proper time for the Court to fit.

Mr. Serjeant Watfon propofed to the Attorney General, ant Wat as a means of compromifing the differences of opinion, and reconciling to the bill all concerned, to introduce two claufes; one for the purpose of enacting that the Court fhould not be held or fit, when its fitting interfered with, or was inconvenient to, the fishery; the other, to declare that the Court fhould have no jurifdiction in cafes of contract made here in England with merchants not refident in England, because the parties fo contracting for their voyages to the ifland, if they felt any grievance or caufe of complaint, would have the means of ample remedy here on their return home.

Attorney The Attorney General approved of the idea, but faid, he did General. not think it right to make it a provision in the bill, because if any error fhould be committed in inferting fuch a claufe or claufes, the effect would be irrevocable, whereas the fame good might be effected through the medium of inftructions to the Governor.

Mr.

The bill was committed, reported, and ordered to be engroffed.

Mr. Popham having moved that the order of the day for taking the report of his poor bill into confideration, be read, the fame was read accordingly.

Mr. Popham then rofe, and obferved, that his bill had unPopham. dergone great correction and alteration in the Committee above ftairs. It had, he owned, been a main object with him to compel overseers to find labour for the poor; and in confequence, returns of the fums expended in the respective

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parishes

1

parishes and diftricts had been called for, in conformity to the laft act of Parliament, and extremely various the fums, fo returned to have been expended, were; by fome ten pounds had been laid out, by others four, three, and two pounds, and by others again only a few fhillings. Mr. Popham therefore faid, he had thrown out of the confideration all that were under forty fhillings, and taken ten pounds as the average of the highest fums, and the returns confidered altogether, afforded the cleareft proof that the directions of the act had been very little attended to, and that not more than one parish in fifty had paid any regard to providing labour for their poor. Having flated this, Mr. Popham faid, what he had at firft thought to be a wife and found regulation, the Committee had been of opinion was not fo well calculated for general practice, as he had ima gined; and in compliance with their ideas another mode of providing for the poor had been fubftituted. He however, thought it right fo ftate, that the principle he had proposed, had been adopted fo long ago as in the reign of William and Mary; he was not therefore to be charged with having attempted to introduce any thing novel. By the bill as it then flood, Mr. Popham faid, three modes of employing the poor were stated, (those who were manufacturers could neceffarily and easily be provided with employment, and therefore they were out of the question); the first mode was, employment in husbandry, as the firft object of this country; the fecond, the allotment of parcels of the wafte, with the leave of the lord or lady of the manor, to raise their own provifions upon; and the third, labour on the highways, for which they were to be paid out of the poor's rate. At first, Mr. Popham faid, he had it in contemplation that the poor who worked on the highways fhould be paid out of the purfe of the furveyor of the highways, but on more mature confideration he thought it better that they should be paid out of the poor's rate. In order to convince the Houfe that there was no danger of the poor's rate being too much drained by the operation of his bill, Mr. Popham tated that thofe of the poor who worked on the highways would moft pro ably be the aged and decrepit, and a. they were to be paid but three fourths of the ordinary price of la our, there was no likelihood of the poor advantaging themselves of that refource fo long as they were capable of other work, and could get any to do. Mr. Popham proceeded to detail the other regulations of his bill, and having gone through the provifions of the feveral claufes, moved that the report be then read.

The amendments having been read a first time, on the

question