Lord Lord Sheffield contended, that if foreign corn was admitted Sheffield. to be imported when the price was not at 48s., every encouragement would be taken away from tillage. He next made fome obfervations on the advantages which America and Ireland would poffefs over this country in the growth of their corn, and fhewed the ftrong neceffity which would arife to guard against the operation which their imports might have upon our agriculture; but neceffary as it would prove to guard against them, it would fpeedily be doubly neceffary to guard against the advantages which France would have over us in the growing of her corn, unfettered by tythes and abfurd corn laws. The advantages of other countries would foon put a period to our tillage, unless we had protecting prices, and fifty-two fhillings he conceived to be the loweft which ought to be granted. Mr. Fox. Mr. Pitt. Mr. Fox maintained, that arguments from experience were to be relied on with the greatest fafety, and experience warranted a high protecting price; for, from the old practice of bounties, and under the old laws, the price of wheat had decreased, until the bill of 1773, after which time it increased, and the country, inftead of exporting, commenced, to a confiderable degree, the injurious practice of importing corn. Those who cultivated corn, ought to know, that fhould they be unfortunate in their crops, the price would rife fufficiently to indemnify them, and, by fuch means, encouragement would be given to tillage, and the poor ultimately benefited by a greater plenty. The only fecurity to the poor, muft enfue from encouraging the tillage of the country, and that was alone to be done by granting bounties, or high protecting prices, which would operate as bounties. The country was oppreffed by tythes, the collection of which was harfh and inglorious, and he anxioufly wifhed that fome gentleman in the Houfe would attempt to relieve the country from that species of barbarifm, and difcouragement to every agricultural improvement. Mr. Pitt argued for the table, being convinced that the fyftem upon which it went, fixed the price high enough for the encouragement of tillage, and at the fame time guarded against any serious inconvenience to the confumer. The queftion was called for, and put, when the numbers were, For the Table, Aves, 53; Noes, 59. Majority 6 The remainder of the bill was agreed to be poftponed, the House was then immediately refumed, and the Committee ordered to fit again on Thurfday. The Houfe adjourned. Tuesday, Tuesday, 5th, and Wednesday, 6th April, No material debate occurred. Thursday, 7th April. Mr. Chancellor Pitt, adverting to the election petitions Mr. Pat. which remained to be heard, remarked, that one stood for the next day, and two for the next week, one of which, he understood, from the diftance of the place whence the witneffes came, and on other accounts, it was necessary to appoint a Committee for before the recefs, as the putting it off till after would be attended with very great inconvenience and expence to all the parties interested. He obferved, that the petition, for which, according to the orders on the book, a Committee was to be balloted upon the morrow, as that refpecting the right of election for Weftminster. He did not then see both the Members for that city in the House, but as the right honourable gentleman oppofite to him was present, he presumed he might take the liberty of propofing to defer the ballot for that Committee to a future day, as the hearing of the petition was not at all preffing in point of time, and as it was ufual for the Houfe to leave off balloting for Committees to try the merits of controverted elections about the 12th of April in every feffion of a new Parliament, and they had already decided as many, perhaps more, than had been decided in any former firft feffion; he fubinitted it to the confideration of the Houfe, whether it would not be adviteable to ballot for only one more Committee before the recefs, (that for Orkney) and poftpone the reft till after the holidays, when he thought it would at leaft be worth while to try the experiment, whether another Committee was to be obtained or not. Mr. Fox faid, it had been his idea that the Westminster Mr. Fox. petition, as it referred to the feat of no fitting Member, ought to give way to others, upon the merits of which the completeness of reprefentation more immediately depended, and therefore, as it always had been his opinion that three ballots a week were not defirable, he had no manner of objection to the right honourable gentleman's propofition." Sir William Young having obferved that he held in his Sir Wm. hand a paper, which was in fact a petition from the House Young. of Affembly and Council of Grenada on the subject of the flave trade, although it affumed the name of a reinonftrance, added, that it was couched in terms of great loyalty, and alfo of great refpect to the House, and, if the House pleased, he would read the contents. Having read it, he moved, "That the paper be brought up.". 3 The The The Speaker intimated, that it was not the practice of the Speaker. Houfe to receive remonftrances; but the paper being drawn in fuch refpectful terms, might, if the Houfe thought pro per, be brought up as a petition. It was brought up accordingly, and ordered to lie on the table. The Houfe adjourned. Friday, 8th April. The petition of certain housekeepers of London and Weftminfter, refpecting the characters of fervants, was referred to the confideration of a Committee. Mr. Mr. Minchin rofe, and begged leave to prefs upon the at-: Minchin. tention of the Houfe, that a very confiderable sum of money was paid for hemp to foreign nations, who, fo far from being upon a friendly footing with this country, had at present rather given us caufe to regard them in a contrary point of view. Befides, it was in the power of thofe nations, on whom we depended for a fupply of the commodity, at any time, by cutting it off, moft materially to injure the intereft of our manufactures. He propofed, therefore, that wafte lands, which at prefent were useless, fhould be improved for the purpose of the culture of hemp, and that the owners of the lands fhould contribute a fum in proportion to the degree of advantage which they might derive from this improvement, in order to diminish the oppreffive burden of the poor's rates. Thus, a confiderable fum, which, in one year, he ftated to amount to not less than a million and a half, fent abroad for the purchase of hemp, would be faved to the country, the manufactures would be benefited, and the country in part relieved from a moft enormous impofition. He concluded with moving, "That a Committee be ap"pointed to enquire into the ftate of the culture of hemp "in this country." Mr. Wil Mr. Wilberforce obferved, that he felt it neceffary to remind berforce. the Houfe that they would foon have an opportunity of taking into confideration the whole merits of the most important queftion concerning the flave trade. In order to form a juft and correct judgement upon it, it would prove requifite not only for every Member of the Houfe to perufe the evidence which had been taken in the Select Committee up ftairs, but alfo to read the evidence given before the Privy Council. As the whole of this evidence was extremely voluminous, it would require great attention, before gentlemen could draw the juft conclufions. Mr. Wilberforce added, that he meant at once to move for the entire and total abolition of the flave trade, without any other propofitions or resolutions on the fubject. Lord Lord Carhampton deemed it highly expedient that the Lord CarHoufe fhould be made acquainted with what had recently hampton. happened in the island of Dominica. He believed it was generally known that violent commotions and infurrections had lately taken place in that ifland. But he could not ascertain whether the cause of these commotions was as generally underftood. The flaves had conceived an idea, which had been inculcated into them, that the Governor had a power given him by the Parliament of Great Britain; and a power his Lordship did not know how to exprefs, without offence, though he was far from meaning any, that the Governor had the authority of the British Parliament, and of "Massa King Wilberforce," for a regulation, by which they fhould not be obliged to work more than three days a week, and be paid two fhillings a day, and the other three days of the week were to be holidays of courfe. Their defign, when they made the late infurrection, had been to cut the throats of all the white inhabitants at a given hour at fupper, and to poffefs themselves of the ifland. It was very true that this commotion had been quelled by the exertions of the Governor and the inhabitants. It was prevented by the 15th and 30th regiments, which happened to be on the island. One of the foldiers was taken prifoner by the negroes, and cut into pound pieces while alive. The foldiers at last got the better, and killed several of them. The ringleaders, it must be admitted, were taken to prifon, examined, tried, and, he believed, had now paid the forfeit of their lives. It was proper it fhould be known that this was one of the effects of the honourable gentleman's ill-understood philanthropy; nor, for his own part, would it excite his aftonishment, were we to lofe all our Weft-India iflands, as a confequence of prohibiting the importation of flaves from Africa to the West Indies. Mr. Wilberforce obferved, that no perfon could rejoice Mr. more than himself to hear of the fuppreffion of that infurrec- Wilber. tion which had been mentioned by the noble Lord, as well as force. of another infurrection which had taken place long before he had brought forward the bufinefs to the view of the Public. He was convinced that the measures which were about to be adopted on the fubject, instead of raifing infurrections, would tend to quell them; and he had always done every thing in his power to prevent any circumftance of this kind, by clearly diftinguishing, what had often been confounded, the abolition. of the flave trade on the coaft of Africa, and the emancipation of those flaves who were already in the West Indies. Mr. Chancellor Pitt begged leave to move for a Select Mr. Pitt. Committee, to enquire into the ftate of the public income. and expenditure. As the words of the motion would fuffiVOL. XXIX, K ciently Mr. Fox. ciently explain the nature of it, he need only propose, that this Committee be appointed by ballot, in the fame manner as other Committees of the fame nature had been appointed on former occafions. The Speaker then read the words of the motion, the subftance of which was, that the feveral public accounts, and other papers prefented to that Houfe, during the prefent fefLion of Parliament, be referred to the confideration of a Select Committee; that they should confider and report the amount of the public income and expenditure during the last five years; and that the faid Committee be alfo directed to enquire what the public revenue and expenditure might be expected to be in future, and what alteration had taken place in the amount of the national debt fince the 5th of January, 1786. Mr. Fox rofe next, and having premifed that endeavours had been made by many to perfuade this country that, during the last five years, the national debt had been confiderably diminished, added, that he did not pretend himfelf, from any investigation of his own, to be able to decide or to fpeak, with certainty, on the fubject. He had no opportunity of knowing whether the affertions were true or falfe. He had, however, taken more opportunities of examining into the ftate of the public revenue and expenditure, between Jan. 1, 1786, and Jan. 1, 1789, and he felt no difficulty in saying, that he was perfectly convinced that the affertions made in another place, and particularly by a moft refpectable and noble friend of his, were perfectly correct, that from Jan. 1, 1786, to Jan. 1, 1789, the public expenditure did exceed not only the regular income, but all income in every shape. All accounts of that fort were naturally involved in fome intricacy, and it was an exceedingly good measure that a Committee fhould be appointed to examine them. But it was very material for that Houfe to coufider what fort of a Coinmittee fhould be appointed for that purpose, and how it fhould be appointed. He remembered a Committee of a fitilar nature, formerly appointed by the right honourable gentleman, which gave much offence. He did not mean to find fault with the individuals who had composed that Committee, nor did he mean any disrespect to any one of them. But the names which compofed that Committee gave every impartial man a degree of diffatisfaction. When a Minister pretended to wish for a Committee to be appointed to give a fair, full, and correct account of the public finances, that Committee ought not to confift, as the former did, of a number of the Minifter's friends, and of perfons notoriously his warmest partizans, headed by one of his colleagues: it being naturally fo much in the power of a Committee, in ftating |