Page images
PDF
EPUB

the quarter from whence it iffued. It had not, he believed, happened, fince the acceffion of the Family of Brunswick, that a petition had been prefented from the Bank to the Houle of Commons against any measure with regard to money matters. In fuch an event, therefore, the fulleft inveftigation, the moft ferious deliberation, was neceffary. A petition had now been presented, figned by the most respectable names, with regard to extent of property, which had ever perhaps appeared in any civilized nation. He was not one of those whom a regard to property could influence in the extreme, neither did he feel himself inclined to allow it too much weight in the deliberations of public bufinefs. On the contrary, he thought, that in debates in that Houfe, it was too frequently referred to, and too much ftrefs laid upon it. But, if there was any occafion on which regard was due to property, it was the prefent. If there was any property deemed facred, it was that which was vefted in the funds; and any petition, proceeding from this quarter, ought to demand the most deliberate attention, and excite the moft ferious regard.

After fome little difficulty with regard to the mode of difpofing of the petition, it was ordered to be laid upon the table, and Counsel heard upon the third reading.

Mr. Pitt gave notice, that it was probable that he might be commanded to bring down on Monday a melige from His Majefty, relative to the prefent fituation of affairs in Europe.

After certain claufes had been read from the act of Parliament, relative to the conduct to be obferved previous to the expiration of the charter of the Faft-India Company,

Mr. Chancellor Pitt conceived that, in the prefent ftate of Mr. Pirt. India, this was not the time for the difcuffion of what meafures fhould be adopted with regard to the renewal of the Company's charter. He meant, however, now to make the motions required by the act, that when that event fhould take place, whatever line of conduct the House should think proper to pursue, they might have the means of fet lement in their own hand. He would not pretend to advise any renewal of the charter, nor would he, on the prefent occafion, hazard the least opinion upon the fubject. Only from the motions which he fhould now make, it would be understood that the exclufive commercial privileges of the Eaft-India Company fhould ceafe, unless it fhould appear to be the pleafure of the House to provide for the continuance of their exer cife in the fame channel.

Mr.

Mr. Huffey having obferved that, from diligent inquiry, and long attention to the fubject, he was decidedly of opi- Huffey,

General

nion that the charter ought never to be renewed, expreffed his approbation of the motions which had been made.

General Smith mentioned fome obftacles, which, in his Smith. opinion, were likely to arife against the profecution of the prefent war in India.

Mr. Pitt.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt anfwered, that the faith of the nation was pledged to make provifion for any engagements which had been entered into by Parliament, or through the medium of the East India Company.

Mr. Mr. Maitland remarked, that during the difcuffion on the Maitland. war in India, it had been ftated as of the utmost importance to our poffeffions in that country, to give protection and ftability to the Company in the prefent ftate of their affairs. With this view, the right honourable gentleman had profeffed to come forward with certain refolutions. Now, a motion was made, giving notice of the expiration of the Company's charter, without any provifion being employed to prevent its neceffary effects. If the motion was merely in compliance with the act, the Minifter ought to have declared that he made it in his official capacity, without any intention that it fhould take effect to the prejudice of the Company's affairs. Or it ought to have been stated, that at the expiration of the prefent fyftem of Government, another equally effectual and coercive would be adopted. But at prefent, the effect of the motion was to intimate to the inhabitants of that country, that the prefent fyftem of that Government, with which they entered into connection, and formed engagements, would fhortly expire, while it left them entirely in the dark what Government would fucceed, or whether any provifion at all would be made to fupply its place. The confequences of this uncertainty would not fail to communicate the most alarming apprehenfions, and violently affect the prefent fituation of the Company's affairs. He thought, therefore, that it was incumbent on the Minifter to have been more explicit, and not have continued fatisfied to deal in guarded intimations, inftead of proceeding to pofitive afcertainments.

Mr. Rofe having brought up the report concerning the Bank Dividend bill,

Mr. Mr. Chifwell rofe, and obferved, that his chief motive for Chifwell. begging leave to trefpafs upon the patience of the House, was grounded upon the recollection of what had fallen from the right honourable gentleman, in the intimation which he had that day given of a meffage which might be expected on Monday, the nature of which, he thought, fhould induce the right honourable gentleman and the Houfe to be very cautious in any proceeding that affected public credit, or

3

even

even that affected the Bank and the ftockholders; for it might happen that a future loan would be required, and certaly, any thing that had a tendency to weaken the fecurity of the public creditor, could not prove a favourable circumftance upon fuch an occation. Mr. Chifwell next reverted to the measure which had been adopted when the term of payment of the long annuities had been altered in 1786. It had then been thought neceffary to allow a certain time for those who might not like the nature of the bill to express their diffent, and then continue to be paid as formerly. This he recommended in the prefent inftance, if the bill was not to be given up; a circumftance that would please him and many more, much better than any poffible amendment which could be made to it. However, as he feared that this would not be done, he intended to offer a claufe which he trufted the Houfe would accept and make part of the bill. The claufe being moved and read, it appeared that the purport of it went to enact, that a book fhould be opened and kept for fix months at the Bank, that those proprietors of unclaimed dividends, and other stockholders in the different public funds, who diffented from the propofal made in the bill to change their fecurity, might have an opportunity of ftating and figning fuch diffent in that book, and thus efcape from being in any manner affected by the bill.

Mr. Steele remarked, that gentlemen who spoke on the other fide, feemed to reft their arguments upon a neceffity which they conceived there was for having the particular confent of every individual proprietor of unclaimed dividends, and every proprietor in the public funds; but he never would allow that any fuch confent was neceffary, or that, though one or more proprietors or ftockholders fhould pofitively diffent, there was any reafon for giving up the bill; and therefore, adopting a claufe fo contradictory to the other parts of it, was nothing elfe than giving it up. With regard to obtaining confent, that claufe in the bill which gave the public creditor three months, after his dividend was due, for confidering whether he would withdraw his money, or allow the fecurity to be transferred from the Bank to Government, was perfectly fufficient for every reasonable purpofe; becaufe, doubtlefs, if a man allowed his dividends to remain three months after he knew that it was due, and by the operation of this bill, certainly, as he had the power of withdrawing it, which he had not done, it might be inferred, that he was, to all intents and purpofes, fatisfied with the transfer, and virtually gave his confent to take public fecurity, inftead of the Bank, thinking the one at leaft as good as the other.

VOL. XXIX.

C

Mr.

Mr.

Steele,

Mr. Fox.

Mr. Fox obferved, that he felt ample reafon to approve of the claufe which had been brought up; and as he had all along wifhed that the bill might have all fuccefs, he should feel a greater pleasure if the claufe were adopted. He next adverted to what the honourable gentleman who spoke laft had faid concerning the confent which had been, or could be, obtained to this measure; and this was a confent by inference, or rather a fuppofed confent. He allowed that there might be a confent by inference, or a virtual confent, fuch as that given to taxation, which the people gave virtually, because they, the House of Commons, whom the people had chofen as their reprefentatives, had agreed to it; but this was very different, indeed, from the confent which the honourable gentleman had talked of; all that was afked by the honourable Member who moved the claufe, was, that perfons who were interested might have an opportunity of giving their diffent, which was certainly fair. He had, on a former occafion, contended, and ftill fhould he perfift in contending, that not only the prefent proprietors of unclaimed dividends, but all ftockholders, muft give their confent, before it was a proper confent; because all stockholders may, at fome future period, have unclaimed dividends. Many refpectable proprietors had already given their diffent, as appeared by the petition from the Bank Proprietors, and that now upon the table, figned by fuch men as, in point of wealth, gave it more weight than, perhaps, any petition which had ever been prefented in any part of the world. He in general was none of thofe who argued that the importance of, or propriety of confideration concerning a measure, depended upon the rank or wealth of thofe interested in it; but furely, on a fubject which was fo materially connected with the property of the country, and the fecurity of the public creditor, he muft contend that very great attention and respect was due to the names, characters, and fituations of fuch men as the petitioners. As to the Bank of England, on all emergencies the nation and they had acted together for a long time back, and he was forry that he was led to remark, upon the prefent occafion, that this was the first time, fince the acceffion of the Brunswick Family to the throne, that the Bank of England had found it neceffary to make any application to Parliament against a measure, which, as far as the national faith and public credit were concerned, was, in the opinion not only of the petitioners, but of all the men of monied interest within the kingdom, fo pregnant with the moft alarming danger. As to the virtual confent mentioned by the honourable gentleman, it feemed to be founded on the diffent which had been given, and would fill be given, if time were

allowed,

allowed. Mr. Fox appealed to the good fenfe and information of the Houfe, whether, in the prefent fituation of affairs, and after the great and general alarm which this meafure had occafioned, it ought to induce the majority of the House to with, at any rate, for more time before they allowed the bill to país? It never had received the confent of any party interested in its operation; on the contrary, it was forced upon them all against their will, and in its nature. unjust as in its confequences deftructive. There were, indeed, particular times, when fuch measures might be hazard ed with lefs danger than at others, and perhaps unfavourable as the fituation of the country was fome months ago, it might be more fo now; but we ought not to purfue measures fraught with injuftice to the people, and deceit upon the public, either at any period, or in any fituation whatfoever.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt conceived that the point at iffue was Mr. Pitt. fimply, whether it was or was not neceffary to have the confent of every individual proprietor and ftockholder; and he had no hesitation in declaring that it was not neceffary.The proprietors of the public funds were of two forts; thofe who had unclaimed dividends in the Bank, and thofe who were merely stockholders, and had no unclaimed dividends. The first were allowed, by the provifions of the bill, three months to withdraw their money, and re-inveft it in the Bank, if they preferred that fecurity to the public fecurity, connected and depending upon the whole revenue of the country; and the fecond having no arrears of dividends, had it in their power to draw their money whenever it became due, and place it where they pleased; and therefore, they could not be affected by the operation of the bill.

Mr. Dundas infifted that thofe gentlemen on the oppofite Mr. fide of the Houfe, who contended that the fecurity of the Dundas. public creditor was infured, and that more time was neceffary to obtain the confent of perfons interested, had not fo good a foundation for their arguments as they pretended to poffefs. He thought, with both his right honourable friends, that the time allowed by the bill was perfectly fufficient for the public creditor to determine which fecurity he would prefer, the Public, or that of the Bank. He replied to what had been urged during the course of the difcuffion concerning the Bank being as trustees for minors, or others, whofe property was left by will in the Bank to accumulate for their use; and he thought it more reasonable to fuppofe, that perfons leaving money in that way, wifhing it to accumulate, would rather be pleased to have the intereft drawn regularly, and appropriated to fome particular purpose, than to let it go into the general aggregate fund of the Bank of England, liable to be,

« PreviousContinue »