ftating fubjects of fuch great intricacy, magnitude, and extent, to make a favourable or unfavourable report, just as they thought proper. Mr. Fox declared that he would prefer any other mode of electing a Committee to that of an election by ballot. If the Committee were to be appointed openly in the Houfe, he fhould then have an opportunity of taking the fenfe of the House on each of the names which might be propofed. No man would deny, that among those who fat on the fide of the Houfe on which he fat, and who profeffed themselves to be no friends to the right honourable gentleman's adminiftration, there were feveral who were men of bufinefs, and men every way adequate to the investigation of a fubject of that nature. If the right honourable gentleman were to vote names openly in the Houfe, Mr. Fox faid, it would be competent for him alfo to propofe fome names to the House, which if the right honourable gentleman did not like, he could also take the fenfe of the House upon them. But if the Committee was appointed by ballot, this could not be done. The laft Committee, however refpectable they were individually, were no fooner appointed, than every impartial man had expreffed his diffatisfaction. He did not oppofe the very proper appointment of a Select Committee, but his fole objection was, to its being appointed by ballot. Mr. Chancellor Pitt thought that, on the prefenr occa- Mr. Pitt. fion, it would be fufficient to ftate, that the interesting objects of inquiry to the country were, what had been really the fituation of the finances from the time of the inftitution of the plan for the reduction of the national debt, up to the prefent period? In the next place, what was the profpect in future with regard to the public income and the public expenditure? What proportion were they likely to bear to each other? Thefe were interefting objects, and they were the objects which he wifhed the Committee fully to inveftigate. He wished that a ftrict and impartial inquiry might he made into the fubject, not for three, but for the fpace of five years. If they had confined their inquiries to three years, it might have been made as well two years ago as at prefent. He was anxious that it might be understood, that there was no one period which he did not wish to have as fully enquired into as any gentleman could wish, being firmly perfuaded, that whenever the inquiry was made, and the matter rightly understood, it would be found, that during the three years between Jan. 1, 1786, and Jan. 1, 1789, the public revenue of this country had exceeded the expenditure. As to the mode of appointing the Committee, he did not think it liable to the imputation which had been caft upon it by the right honourable gentleman, nor could he fee any reafon to imagine that they could not have a Committee K 2 fairly Mr. Fox. fairly chofen by ballot. Was it to be fuppofed, for a moment, that the Members of that House, in giving in their lifts by ballot, would not confult their duty, and act as fairly as they would do if any other mode of proceeding were adopted? He believed they would, and therefore he should certainly perfift in moving, that the Committee be appointed by ballot. The right honourable gentleman had spoken with much perfonal civility of the laft Committee, but had obferved, that they had given great diffatisfaction to every impartial man. Mr. Pitt here obferved, that fome of those who pretended to be impartial men, might be, perhaps, a little partial. It was not by any means eafy to decide correctly who was partial, and who was impartial, on such a fubject. He declared, that he could not conceive how diffatisfaction could have arifen in the breaft of any man against that Committee, and he firmly believed that no diffatisfaction had exifted. The Committee muft report the facts, and the vouchers on which they proceeded to ground their opinion. They were, therefore, extremely liable to detection, if they did not report fairly. For his part, he had an equal perfonal respect for all the individuals who compofed that Committee, on account of their knowledge, information, and integrity. He was perfuaded that when the subject came a fecond time under confideration, it would afford the highest fatisfaction, fince the more it was revised and examined, the more it would appear that the Committee had performed its duty. It was his intention and his wish to procure an adequate report on the subject, but he should not controvert the right honourable gentleman's propofition, that there were on the oppofite fide of the Houfe, fome gentlemen of abilities and knowledge, who were extremely capable of throwing light upon the subject. Undoubtedly there were. At the fame time, however, he hoped the right honourable gentleman would not deny, but that there might happen, perhaps, alfo to be fome perfons, and at least as many, on that fide of the Houfe, who were capable, and alfo very much inclined, to discharge their duty with fidelity and honour; and whatever number of Members might be chofen from one fide of the Houfe, or from the other, it was his fincere with that, for the purpose of obtaining an useful and diftinct report, in all refpects worthy of the confideration of the House, and of the Public, they might be felected from both. Mr. Fox exprefled his fatisfaction at difcovering that they were not to have fuch a Committee as the laft; but he still thought that the better way of chufing the Committee would be by the Houfe acting openly, rather than in a concealed manner, by means of a ballot; for all knew perfectly well how thofe forts of ballots were managed. He thought that, con confidering the delegation of fo great a truft, the House fhould declare the names of those whom they conceived most fit to compofe the Committee. Mr. Chancellor Pitt anfwered, that either at the prefent Mr. Pitt. moment, or at any moment, the beft proof which he could give that the former Committee had done their duty, was, that he felt no difficulty in letting the fubject be revifed, fo that if any error had efcaped, it might be detected. The Speaker then put the question on the first motion: "That the feveral accounts, and other papers prefented "to this Houfe, in this feffion of Parliament, relative to the "public income and expenditure, be referred to the confide"ration of a Select Committee, and that the faid Committee. "be directed to examine and ftate the fame, and alfo to report to the House what may be expected to be the annual "amount of the faid income and expenditure in future." Mr. Chancellor Pitt next moved, " "That the number of the faid Committee be nine. "That the faid Committee be chofen by balloting. "That the Members of this Houfe do on Monday next, " at two o'clock, propofe lifts to be put into glaffes of nine "6 perfons' names, to be of the faid Committee." These motions were carried. The order of the day for taking the report of the Quebec bill into farther confideration, having been read, Mr. Huffey begged leave to inform the Houfe, that he had Mr. a petition to prefent from a number of very refpectable per- Huffey. fons against the bill in queftion. They had conceived that it was likely to prove prejudicial to their trade. The petition was brought up and received. It contained the prayer of feveral merchants, warehousemen, and manufacturers of Quebec, that the bill might not pafs into a law, inafmuch as, after having duly weighed the confequences of it, they feared that it would be attended with great injury, particularly to their trade and commerce. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. The Speaker then put the queftion, "That this report be now taken into farther confideration." Mr. Huffey moved "That the bill be re-committed." Mr. Fox remarked, that the bill contained a variety of Mr. Fox. claufes, of the utmost importance, not only with respect to the country to which they immediately related, but to Great Britain. Many of thefe claufes appeared to be very exceptionable, and fuch as he could by no means fubfcribe to. The bill propofed to give two Affemblies to the two provinces, and thus far it met with his approbation; but the number of perfons of whom thefe Affemblies were to confift, deserved particular attention. Although it might be perfectly true, that a country, a country, three or four times as large as Great Britain, ought to have reprefentatives three or four times as numerous, yet it was not fit to fay, that a finall country should have an Affembly proportionably fmall. The great object in the inftitution of all popular Affemblies was, that the people fhould be fully and freely represented; and that the representative body should have all the virtues and the vices incident to fuch Affemblies. But when they made an Affembly to confift of fixteen or thirty perfons, they feemed to him to give a free conftitution in appearance, when, in fact, they withheld it. In Great Britain, we had a feptennial bill; but the goodness of it had been confidered doubtful, at least, even by many of those who took a lead in the present bill. The right honourable gentleman (Mr. Pitt) had himself fupported a vote for the repeal of that act. He did not now mean to difcufs its merits; but a main ground on which it had been thought defenfible was, that a general election in this country was attended with a variety of inconveniencies. That general elections in Great Britain were attended with feveral inconveniences, could not be doubted; but when they came to a country fo different in all circumftances as Canada, and where elections, for many years at least, were not likely to be attended with the confequences which they dreaded, why they fhould make fuch Affemblies not annual or triennial, but feptennial, was beyond his comprehenfion. A feptennial bill did not apply to many of the most respectable perfons in that country; they might be perfons engaged in trade, and if chofen reprefentatives for feven years, they might not be in a fituation to attend during all that period; their affairs might call them to England, or many other circumstances might arife, effectually to prevent them from attending the fervice of their country. But although it might be inconvenient for fuch perfons to attend fuch Affembly for the term of seven years, they might be able to give their attendance for one, or even for three years, without any danger or inconvenience to their commercial concerns. By a feptennial bill, the country of Canada might be deprived of many of the few reprefentatives that were allowed by the bill. If it fhould be faid, that this objection applied to Great Britain, he completely denied it; becaufe, although there were perfons engaged in trade in the British Houfe of Commons, and many of them very worthy Members, yet they were comparatively few; and therefore he fhould think that, from the fituation of Canada, annual or triennial Parliaments would be much preferable to feptennial. Of the qualification of electors he felt it impoffible to approve. In England, a freehold of forty fhillings was fufficient; five pounds were neceffary in Canada. Perhaps it might be faid, that when this was fairly confidered, it would make no material difference, and this he fufpected to be the cafe; but granting that it did not, when we were giving to the world, by this bill, our notions of the principles of election, we should not hold out that the qualifications in Great Britain were lower than they ought to be. The qualifications on a House were ftill higher; he believed, ten pounds. He thought that the whole of this conftitution was an attempt to undermine and contradict the profeffed purport of the bill: the introduction of a popular Government into Canada. But although this was the cafe with refpect to the two Affemblies, although they were to consist of so inconfiderable a number of Members, the legislative Councils in both provinces were unlimited as to numbers. They might confift of any number whatever, at the will of the Governor. Inftead of being hereditary councils, or councils chofen by electors, as was the cafe in fome of the colonies in the Weft Indies, or chofen by the King, they were compounded of the other two. As to the points of hereditary powers, and hereditary honours, to fay that they were good, or that they were not good, as a general propofition, was not eafily maintained; but he saw nothing fo good in hereditary powers and honours, as to incline us to introduce them into a country where they were unknown, and by fuch means diftinguifh Canada from all the colonies in the West Indies. In countries where they made. a part of the conftitution, he did not think it wife to destroy them; but to give birth and life to fuch principles in countries where they did not exift, appeared to him to be exceedingly unwife. He could not account for it, unless it was that Canada, having been formerly a French colony, there might be an opportunity of reviving thofe titles of honour, the extinction of which, fome gentlemen fo much deplored, and to revive in the Weft that fpirit of chivalry, which had fallen into difgrace in a neighbouring country. He thought thefe powers and honours wholly unneceffary, and tending rather to make a new conftitution worse than better. council were wholly hereditary, he should equally object to it; it would only add to the power of the King and the Governor; for a council, fo conftituted, would only be the tool of the Governor, as the Governor himfelf would only be the tool and engine of the King. He did not clearly comprehend the provifion which the bill made for the Proteftant clergy. By the Proteftant clergy, he fuppofed to be underftood not only the clergy of the church of England, but all defcriptions of Proteftants. He totally difapproved of the claufe, which enacts, "That whenever the King fhall "make grants of lands, one feventh part of thofe lands fhall "be appropriated to the Proteftant clergy." He had two If the objec |