Monday, 11th April.

Mr.

Mr. Sheridan objected against the mode of appointing the Finance Committee, as putting it in the power of the Mini- Sheridan. fier to procure nine of his own friends to decide on the truth

of his own ftatements.

Mr. Steele contended that the appointment of a Committee Mr. Steele by ballot was unobj &tionable, even on the ground stated by the honourable gentleman, as every Member was at liberty to give in a lift of fuch names as he thought proper.

The Houfe then balloted for a Committee, the Members being called over in the order of the counties, and each giving in a lift of nine names in the usual form.

A motion was made, "That there be laid before this "House, A lift of the names of fuch proprietors of all the "different forts of annuities, (life annuity excepted) as are payable, and in the management of His Majefty's Exchequer, as were entitled to annuities on or before the 31st "day of December, 1780, and which now remain unpaid, "ftating the dates when the firft of the faid annuities be"came payable, together with fuch defcriptions of the faid "perfons as may be entered in the books, orders, or rolls "of His Majesty's Exchequer."

"That there be alfo laid before this House an account of "the money expended on the works at Somerfet Place, from "the commencement to Lady Day 1791; and an estimate "of the fums which will be necessary to complete the fame; fhewing how much of the money expended has been ac"counted for, according to the courfe of the Exchequer, "and for how much of the remainder, vouchers have been "produced to the perfons appointed to fuperintend the works "carrying on under the direction of Sir William Cham"bers."

The House having refolved themfelves into a Committee on the farther confideration of the Corn bill, and Mr. Bramfton having taken the chair,

Mr. Powys rofe, when the claufe for warehoufing corn imported was read, and expreffed his aftonishment that, as it had been already negatived, it fhould have been again introduced without a general notice that it was intended again to make it the fubject of difcuffion. Many gentleman who voted against the clause were not aware that the effect of recommiting the bill, would prove the re-introduction of the claufe.

Mr.

Powys.

Mr. Ryder anfwered, that if the right honourable gentle- Mr. man would please to recollect, he must be fatisfied that fuffi- Ryder. cient intimation had been given that the claufe was again to be fubmitted to the confideration of the Houfe; and it was VOL. XXIX.

fo

Mr.

fo fubmitted on grounds which demanded very ferious attention. The regulations of a permanent fyftem ought not only to be fuch as to provide the country with a fupply of corn, when that became neceffary, but to provide it with the leaft poffible delay. If corn imported was not allowed to be warehoufed, a confiderable length of time after a fupply became neceffary must elapfe before that fupply could be obtained from foreign countries; and when it was obtained, the quantity brought into our ports might be fufficient for fix months confumption, when we wanted only enough for three. If corn was ordered from America, to which we must naturally look for a fupply when wanted, the ports might be fhut againft importation before the corn fo ordered arrived, and the owners would become obliged to carry it elsewhere, and fell it at a lofs; a circumftance which would go a great length to preclude importation from that quarter. If, on the contrary, corn imported, when the price was under the regulated price at which it was allowed to be brought to market, were warehoufed, a fupply would be inftantly at hand, when the price rofe fo high as to fhew that a fupply of foreign corn was neceffary. The fyftem of warehousing, as far as it had gone, had done no harm. On the contrary, it had proved beneficial. On this argument he did not mean to lay much stress, because the effect had been but small, and the quantity warehoufed inconfiderable. As far as it went, however, it tended to encourage the navigation and the commerce of the country, which might be ftill further benefited by it; and it would give the defirable means of enlarging the returns from America, and confequently extending the fale of manufactures.

Mr. Powys having premifed that the right honourable Powys. gentleman had intimated to him that the claufe was to be again introduced, but the intimation had not been fuch as to be generally understood, for he had been unable to convince feveral gentlemen that it could be done by the forms of the Houfe. The first ground on which the renewed introduction of the claufe was defended, was, that it tended to promote navigation and commerce; and the fecond, that it would provide a fupply of corn for the confumption of the country, always ready to be ufed when wanted, obferved, that the first appeared to be true only with refpect to America, but not with refpect to countries bordering on the Baltic, from which the greater part of our foreign fupplies was drawn, and from which the voyage was fo fhort, that there was little risk of the ports being thut between ordering and receiving a fupply, unless they had been opened by fraudulent means. The fecond was true, only when corn was plenty, and the price moderate in other parts of Europe; becaufe,

I

because, under other circumftances, that very corn which was warehoused as a fupply for this country, would be refhipped for exportation. This was the true reafon why fo little had been hitherto taken from the warehouses for home confumption. Mr Powys ftated that two principles were laid down in the Report of the Committee of Privy Council, which he approved, and which were in direct oppofition to the claufe. First, that the fupply of corn from the tillage of the country was the best supply; and fecondly, that the tacks and barns of the farmer were the best ftores of corn. The warehoufing of foreign corn could not afford a fupply to be depended on, unlefs when the price rofe, an embargo were to be laid on the exportation of it, which would be in effect a breach of faith on the part of the Public towards the importers, and a proceeding fo harih, as nothing but extreme neceffity could juftify. On the other hand, it would deprefs the fpirit and the induftry of the farmer, who would fee, that whenever he refufed the price offered by the corn dealer, the latter had a quantity of foreign corn at hand ready to be poured into the market, and which, by his influence over the market, he would find, almoft at pleasure, the means of introducing.

It was agreed to go through the amendments, previously to the decifion upon the claufe itfelf.

Mr. Serjeant Watson propofed adding Bridport to the number of ports at which warehouses were to be established.Mr. Pelham mentioned Shoreham and Arundel; and Mr. Pulteney, Weymouth.

Mr.

Mr. Ryder obferved, that as thefe places had not been before mentioned, he was not prepared with fuch information Ryder. refpecting them, as enabled him to fay whether it would be proper to add them or not. He next faid, that with fome variation from the original plan, it was meant that the Crown should pay rent for the warehouses, at the rate of two fhillings and fixpence a week per hundred quarters of corn stored, and that as wheat and rye were the principal forts of bread corn brought from a distance, they should be the only forts ftored.

Mr. Harrison contended, that thofe who imported corn Mr. to be stored, ought at leaft to pay the expence of it. This Harrifon. price of ftoring would operate as a premium on importation against the growth of the country, and the very corn fo paid for, might be afterwards fraudulently exported with a bounty.

Colonel Macleod remarked, that oats were the bread corn Colonel of great part of Scotland, and that if warehoufing the bread Macleod. corn of one part of the country were to be paid for by the Public, that of another was entitled to the fame advantage.

O 2

Much

Mr. Pitt.

Much of the corn imported at Greenock was warehoused there for the purpose of being diftributed along the west coast and country of Scotland,

Mr. Chancellor Pitt thought it very needlefs to object against allowing every advantage to one part of the country that was granted to another; nor did he fee any reason for infifting on this part of the claufe. He only begged that the feveral parts might be confidered on their feparate and diftin& grounds; that paying for warehousing in general might not be rejected on account of any fuppofed inequality; and that the whole claufe might not be rejected on account of the propofition to pay for warehousing.

Mr. Mr. Pulteney conceived it proper to admit the claufe for Pulteney warehoufing, but not paying for it at the public expence, obferving, that Holland, where the import and export of corn was a trade, never paid the expence of warehoufing.

Lord Sheffield.

Mr. Ryder agreed to withdraw this part of the clause. Lord Sheffield faid, no part of the very objectionable bill was likely to be more ruinous to tillage than the clause then before the Committee. The mischief of heaping up immenfe magazines of foreign corn in every part of the kingdom, fhould be obvious to every man. It was impoffible to invent any thing more injurious to tillage, than to fuffer every country in the world to keep their cheap corn in magazines in this country, and in readiness to be poured, by means of our canals, into the very heart of the kingdom, whenever the ports are opened, either through fraudulent means in the diftricts, or because the smalleft quantity of our ufual confumption was wanting. The arrival of a hundred ships in one day with corn, would not ruin the market fo completely as the opening of the magazines of one port would do.More corn had been turned loose in one day than one hundred fhips could carry. When our opulent dealers in corn had filled their magazines, it would be an eafy matter, at a moderate expence, to raise the price of corn in the markets which regulate importation in the diflrict, fo as to open the ports, and even at the time that the price in the corn-growing counties of England might be very low. The ports and magazines once opened for importation, muft remain fo for three months, notwithstanding the magazines poured out ten times more than was wanted. Corn often came here at very low prices. It came from America, and must be fold in payment at any price, even below its real value, and it would be taken in payment at any rate, rather than have no payment. It fo happened that fome corn-growing countries, wanting bulky articles from this ifland, could fend it almost without charging freight. Above 100,000 tons of fhipping came yearly from the Baltic, from Flanders, and Ireland, to Li

verpool,

verpool, for falt, and could afford to bring 500,000 quarters of wheat at a very small expence. On an average of many years, the price of wheat at Dantzic had been at 29s. 6d. ; the price had been often at 30s. in Ireland; and he knew it to be the opinion of a Virginian gentleman, that it answered better, even on James River, to grow wheat at 2s. 6d. per bufhel, than tobacco at 19s. per cwt., which was an high price, and that price of 2s. 6d. was only currency, and not more than 2cd. fterling. The farmers would foon fee they could not raise corn in competition, and neceffarily would turn from tillage to pafture. The defolation, and also the dependance on foreign countries for fubfiftence, which must neceffarily take place, would be obvious to every one. Even if the farmer could afford to fell in competition, he often would not have time to bring his corn to thofe parts where the ports might be fuddenly opened. He added, that thofe magazines were unneceffary; we never had fuch during the profperous time of our corn trade; they were not wanted; the magazines of Holland were near enough, and famine did not come on suddenly. Ireland, by preventing importation, was become a great corn country, and would now always be a magazine for this country. His Lordship obferved, however, that if the claufe in question paffed, the growth of corn in Ireland would be greatly difcouraged, and that country would be deprived of all the natural advantages of her fituation.

Mr. Ryder remarked that, in his opinion, it was very ex- Mr. traordinary, not to fay abfurd, to predict riot from that Ryder. which had exifted eighteen years without any fuch effect. Petitions had been prefented from Liverpool, Manchester, and Birmingham, in favour of the claufe, fince it was confeffedly objected againft, and would probably have come from many other places, had that been known fooner. The corn warehoufed could only be re-exported, when the price in other countries was confiderably higher than in this; and even in that extreme cafe, how much worfe would our fituation be, without any warehoused at all?

The Committee divided on the claufe;

Ayes, 56; Noes, 70. Majority against it, 14. On the claufe for dividing the country into eleven districts, with a view to afeertaining the export and import prices in each,

Mr.

Mr. Powys read a few lines from the reprefentation of the Committee of Privy Council, in which he entirely acquiefced Powys. on this point, although he had not been able to discover the reafon which induced the framers of the bill to deviate from the opinion there laid down. The paffage was, in fubftance, That, according to the principles of the corn trade, ons ge

neral