humanity was a quality so rare in this country, and that the feelings of our officers by land and by sea were so different from the general feelings of the English nation, that it was absolutely necessary to give them the thanks of parliament for not acting in a manner unworthy of the British character? In considering the speeches of the noble lord (Castlereagh,) and the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer, it appeared to him that the latter had spoken with much greater advantage than the noble mover. The right hon. gent. had heard a speech from his right hon. friend (Mr. Windham,) and that furnished him with something to say by way of reply. The noble lord, however, had no such advantage; he was to make out a case, or rather to make a long ingenious speech when he had no case at all. In this kind of effort, the noble lord was generally very successful; for he certainly possessed the dexterity and ingenuity of making as much out of little as any member in that house. The right hon. gent. had supposed his right hon. friend to have said, that ministers had advised the expedition merely for their own private views. His right hon. friend had said no such thing; but merely, that ministers having done something, wished to make the most of it. They had attacked the city of Copenhagen by surprise, or, as some would call it, by treachery, and having succeeded, they wished to give the utmost possible importance to the transaction, and celebrated it by firing of guns and granting of peerages. They had been extremely lavish in the distribution of honours of that description. He believed that there was no instance in the annals of this country of the honour of the peerage having before been conferred for military services of this description. It appeared to him, however, that those persons upon whom those honours had been lavished,had no great reason to be proud of the manner in which they had been obtained. As to admiral Gambier, he believed that no man could have been more surprized than he was on finding his name in the gazette as baron Gambier. It was an honour that he could not have expected. As to the other naval officers employed in this expedition, they never suspected they had performed any achievement that entitled them to the high reward of the thanks of parliament. The fleet in fact, had nothing to do, and consequently did nothing. Every thing that was done was by the army, and all the duty that fell upon the fleet was to stand by and see fair play. It was likethe duty of keeping the lines on a field-day, or of keeping a ring at a boxing match, but certainly nothing that a British fleet could take pride in. Although he considered that what they did was next to nothing, he would still give them credit for doing more than the noble lord had stated them to have done. The noble lord, in magnifying the difficulties which our troops had to encounter, stated the number of the Danes to be 35,000, and to have been collected from the different islands. As to their numbers, he did not suppose any human being besides his lordship could credit that statement; but as to their being collected from the different islands, he must, in justice to the fleet, deny that assertion. As to the operations of the army, he did not suppose that they had any opportunity of signalizing themselves by any military exploit. There was no man respected more than he did the character of sir Arthur Wellesley, and he did not know any general to whom the country might look in future with greater hope; but he was convinced, that gallant general must have been as much surprized as admiral Gambier was, when he found himself made a peer, to hear that this affair in the island of Zealand was magnified into a great victory. Sir Arthur Wellesley was a general who had often been in real battles, and was well acquainted with victory, and, therefore, he must have been surprized at finding this victory so celebrated. The real truth was, that there was little or no fighting in the case. The corps that opposed sir Arthur Wellesley was a very inferior force, consisting principally of undisciplined and unarmed people, who took to their heels as soon as they were attacked. He believed that all the regular troops in the island did not exceed 2,700 men; and as to what the noble lord called the regimented militia,he believed there was nothing like a regular organized militia in the island; but that what was called the militia, consisted merely of the inhabitants capable of bearing arms, who, although undisciplined, were in some manner attached to the different regiments. He believed that the organization of what the noble lord called the regimented militia of Zealand, differed but very little from what was formerly known in London, by the description of the Lumber Troop. If there had been such an armed force in Zealand as had been stated by the noble lord, could it be believed that it would have been to hail their Captain of the Fleet (sir possible to effect a landing without oppo- Home Popham) was that they considered sition, within a few miles of Copen-him as a man who would be most extremely hagen? He should contend, that in all the attentive to the interests of their trade; operations previous to the surrender, there but it turned out, that after the surrender, was not a single opportunity afforded to he was so completely occupied in packing any one officer of distinguishing himself up the stores taken, that he forgot to apin any remarkable manner. There had prize the merchant vessels in the trade, of been nothing to call fighting in the field; the war with Denmark, and many ships there had been no encounters with the were taken in consequence of this want of garrison; there had been no attacks of information. Probably the gentlemen at the works of the fortress; but whatever Lloyd's felt a little sore upon this point. was done, was done exclusively by the It must be recollected also, that great artillery, assisted by the marines, in bom- complaints had been made by the Rusbarding the city. As to the precedents sian merchants of the neglect which their brought forward by the right hon. the trade had experienced. The Captain of chancellor of the exchequer, he did not the Fleet was, however, employed in a think they had much bearing on the case. different manner. He was packing up The thanks to admiral Cornwallis was for every thing which could be carried away, having, with a very inferior force, saved and collecting every old hammer which the fleet under his command by the skil- he could find. As to the promotion of fulness of his manœuvres, and the courage admiral Gambier to the peerage, every he displayed. This was clearly a service one who was personally acquainted with entitled to thanks; but if his fleet had been the gallant admiral, who knew the excelso vastly superior as not to have given himlence of his character and the suavity of an opportunity of displaying that professional skill, there would have been no grounds for the vote. In one part of the noble lord's speech, he described the force sent to Copenhagen as so decidedly superior as to be absolutely irresistible, although in another part he conjured up a force of 35,000 regulars and militia, in order to give splendour to the success. As to the votes of thanks to the governors of Bombay and Madras, he should not have concurred in them, if he had been in the house but the cause for which they had been given was expressly stated, and certainly the exertions of the different governments had been productive of the most important results. He disapproved of the peerage being given as the reward of any military services, but those of the After the gallery was cleared for a dihighest rank; but as to pecuniary grants, vision, Mr. Whitbread, Mr. Elliot, Mr. W. he thought the country often too niggardly Smith, and sir F. Burdett spoke against the in their remuneration, and that a pension motion; and at the instance of sir F. Burof 2000l. per annum was not a sufficient dett, the house divided, when there apreward for services of the highest import-peared, For the Vote of thanks 100, against ance. There was one reason which he it 19. Majority 81. thought might incline some persons to think that rewards and thanks ought not to be given in this instance. The Committee at Lloyd's, who generally ran before the decision of parliament, had not yet voted their thanks and rewards. He believed, however, that he could account for the tardiness of those gentlemen on the present occasion. He believed that one of the great inducements of that body his manners, might be pleased at any good fortune he might meet with ; but the general feeling of those who happened not to be acquainted with him, was a feeling of disgust at seeing the peerage given as a reward for such service, or such no-service, as he had performed. When he said 'no-service,' he only meant to say that there was nothing for admiral Gambier to do. The hon. member, after contrasting the late expedition with the advantages gained at Copenhagen by lord Nelson, where the gallantry and humanity of the English character were admired by the Danes themselves, concluded by declaring, that he thought the thanks of parliament would be of little value in future, if they were now given. Brand, T. List of the Minority. Burdett, sir F. Matthew, M. Ossulston, lord. Parnell, H. Folkestone, lord. Pierce, H. Honeywood, W. Smith, W. Hurst, R. Sharp, R. Horner, F. Tracey, H. Howard, W. Smith, J. The following Resolutions were then | Danish Navy for sea, and effecting the moved by lord Castlereagh, and agreed embarkation and removal of the naval to; "1. That the thanks of this house be stores from the arsenal at that place. 5. given to lieut. gen. sir Harry Burrard, bart. That this house doth highly approve of lieut. gen. the earl of Rosslyn, lieut. gen. and acknowledge the services of the Seasir George Ludlow, lieut. gen. sir David men and Marines on board the ships under Baird, majs. gen. the hon. Edw. Finch, Tho. the command of admiral lord Gambier, in Grosvenor, the right hon. sir Arthur Wel- their cordial and effectual co-operation lesley, sir Tho. Blomefield, bart. Dreschell, with the land forces during the siege of baron Linsingen, Brent Spencer, brigadiers Copenhagen, in their indefatigable activity general Robert McFarlane, and Henry and exertions in equipping the Danish Warde, and to the several officers who navy for sea, and in effecting the embarkserved in the army commanded by lieut. ation and removal of the naval stores from general the right hon. lord viscount Cath- the arsenal at that place; and that the capcart, for the zeal, intrepidity, and exertion tains of the several ships do signify the which they displayed in the various opersame to their respective crews, and do ations which were necessay for conducting thank them for their distinguished and exthe siege, and effecting the surrender of emplary conduct." the Navy and Arsenal, of Copenhagen. [COMMITTEE OF FINANCE.] The Chan2. That this house doth highly approve of cellor of the Exchequer rose, to move for a and acknowledge the distinguished regu- revival of the Committee of Finance. It larity, discipline, valour, and exertions, was not necessary, he said, for him to displayed by the Non-commissioned officers trespass at any length upon the attention and soldiers of the said army in all the of the house, by detailing the advantages operations attending the reduction of the the country and the public service had Fleet and Arsenal of Copenhagen; and derived from the arduous labours of that that the same be signified to them by the committee since its first appointment: or commanders of the several corps, who are the great savings and valuable reguladesired to thank them for their distinguish- tions which had been effected in various ed and exemplary conduct. 3. That the departments and branches of the public Thanks of this house be given to admiral service, from their suggestions. He parthe right hon. lord Gambier, for the dis- ticularly instanced in the department of tinguished ability and promptitude dis- the army, the Pay-office; and he had the played in the judicious distribution of his satisfaction to add, that government had majesty's Fleet under his command in the been fortunate in an opportunity of comBaltic, by which all succours were cut off mitting the duty of carrying those regu from the island of Zealand, and the unin- lations into effect, to the gentleman who terrupted operations of the army at the originally suggested them, and under whose siege of Copenhagen were secured, and care he was confident they would be renfor his zealous and cordial co-operation with dered efficient to the public service. He the land forces during that important serhad also to state to the house, that in convice, after every means of negotiation had sequence of the suggestions of the combeen exhausted; and also for the judg-mittee, an application had been made to ment and indefatigable activity manifested by him in equipping the Danish Navy for sea, and effecting the embarkation and removal of the naval stores from the arsenal of Copenhagen. 4. That the Thanks of this house be given to vice admiral sir Henry Edwin Stanhope, bart. to rear admiral Essington, to rear admiral sir Samuel Hood, to rear admiral Keats, to captain sir Home Popham, first captain to the right hon. admiral lord Gambier, and to the several captains and officers in the fleet under the command of the said admiral, for their cordial and effectual co-operation with the land forces during the siege of Copenhagen, and for their indefatigable activity and exertions in equipping the the Bank of England, under the exigencies of the country, for the aid of a loan, free of interest, to the public; and he must do justice to the directors by declaring that the Bank of England, with its wonted liberality, had most chearfully acceded. He should conclude by moving for the revival of the said committee proposing no alteration of the names which composed the list of last year, save only the omission of Mr. Richard Rider, not now a member of the house, in whose stead he should propose to insert the name of Mr. Charles Ellis. He then moved accordingly, and the motion passed without opposition. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Friday, January 29. [COMMERCIAL LICENCES.] Mr. Horner rose, pursuant to his notice, and said, that it would not be necessary for him to detain the house at any length, as the object of his motion could be stated in a very few words. He felt it, however, in the first place, necessary to observe, that it was not his intention, in making the motion he was about to make, to anticipate, in any respect, the discussion that might hereafter arise upon the legality or policy of the Orders in Council; his object was merely to put the house in possession of such information as might enable them to form an adequate judgment of the extent to which a practice unquestionably within the act and in its origin, legal, had been carried; whether with regard to safe conduct, or the commercial intercourse in transports conveying foreign commodities from one country to another. He was aware that never was there a period in which it was more hazardous to attempt to trade without those licences than the present, and that, by consequence, never was there a time in which the granting of licences by the privy council was carried to such a serious extent; but he contended, that this very consideration was the strongest argument why it was necessary for the legislature of the country to ascertain its limits, and, if that was not possible, to prescribe such as both the principles of commercial policy and constitutional law, rendered necessary. When it was considered how largely the field of licences was opened by the present extensive, almost universal, system of blockade, the present would not be thought an unseasonable opportunity for ascertaining the extent of the persons to which the grant of those licences was entrusted. He had said that this unrestrained power was injurious upon two considerations; first upon that of commercial policy; and, secondly, upon that of constitutional law; with regard to the first, there could be no doubt it was not politic to throw into the hands of his majesty's executive government the entire controul of the commercial intercourse of the country: upon such an uncertain principle, commercial men could not be expected to engage in any speculation, because there was no one uniform ground upon which to claim such licences, nor was there any recognized principle by which the persons exempted could ascertain whether they laboured under any partial grievance, or whether they were, for sufficient reason, exempted from the benefits of such licence; and here he could not help observing, that certainly it did appear that those exemptions had been carried to a most serious extent. But he had said, that this power of granting licences so unascertained, was also contrary to the principles of the constitutional law; he meant those principles by which it was regulated, that no money could be taken from the subject, but by the legislative power. According to the true principles of the constitution, nothing but the parliament could levy money of the people, and yet, what was the mmediate effect of this system of granting licences with a discretionary power? Nothing less than that of establishing an impost, a system of taxation on the subject, in contradiction of the very spirit of the constitution, and in open violation of the law of the land. By this system the entire foreign trade was thrown into the hands of the executive, and thus the foreign trade was exclusively submitted to the controul of the licences of the executive, which licences were not authorized by act of parliament. He understood that the yearly amount of fees received at the Privy Council Office for these licences was very considerable. By what rule, or at what rate they were imposed, he knew not. He was not even aware of any approximation to their amounts; but it was sufficient for the house to know, that almost the whole of the foreign trade was carried on by these licenses, and that in them fees originated which were unautho rized by parliament, and which amounted to a direct impost and taxation on foreign commerce. The hon. gent. concluded with moving, "That an humble address be presented to his majesty, praying that he would be graciously pleased to give di rections that there be laid before the house a List of all the Licences granted by his majesty's privy council to private persons, in a manner that would have been illegal, unless under the authority of said Licence, from the month of May 1803, to the 1st day of November last inclusive, distinguishing the number in each month and year." Mr. Rose said that there could be but one wish on the part of his majesty's ministers, with respect to the principle of the motion now before the house. The hon. gent. had prefaced his motion with a speech that Mr. Horner begged pardon for interrupting the right hon. gent. but he thought he could save the house and the right hon. gent. much unnecessary trouble, by stating that the wording of the present motion, as far as related to the list of licences, specifying each, was a mistake to be attributed to his inadvertency; as his intention was to have moved rather for the number of licences so granted, which would as fully answer the ultimate object of his motion. It was then agreed upon, that the papers to be laid before the house should be an account of the number of licences so granted, &c. did him great credit, and shewed at once | ate this difficulty by omitting this distinchis candour and perspicuity; in the same tion, and moving for the production of spirit of candour he would suggest to that licences granted within stated times. As hon. gent. an amendment in the wording to what the hon. member had said he of the motion now before the house. The should make the subject of his second motion went to require a list of the Li- motion, namely, the fees granted to the cences, &c. and there was annexed the officers of the privy council, he thought, distinction of legality, and illegality, a that in general stated fees were much less distinction that, perhaps, it would not be liable to abuse than gratuities, which so easy to ascertain as might at first be he should in every department whatever imagined. As to the first objection, it be prepared to set his face against. As to would be scarcely possible to supply a list the precise nature of the fees of office on of all the Licences granted within the five the granting oflicences, the fees amounted, years, specifying each, and severally dis- for a whole cargo, to merely 14/. including tinguishing them. the stamp duty, which amounted to 1 10s.; of which 14 pounds, 97. 4s. 6d, was paid for the sign manual, 21. to the principal clerk, and 17. 10s. distributed among the other inferior officers, and 2s. 6d. to the office-keeper. In stating this he would repeat, that there was nothing which he was more anxious to put a check to than the system of gratuities. He would join with any gentleman in annexing to it any punishment seasonably rigorous. He would go so far as to subject it to the penalties of a simple felony. For there was no one existing abuse he was so anxious to put a stop to. He had no other motive in suggesting these alterations to Mr. hose could not avoid pressing upon the hon. gent. than to put him in the best the consideration of the hon. gent. the pro-way of coming at the information he sought priety of another alteration in the wording of his motion. The distinction that was attempted to be laid down as to what orders were legal or illegal, would be necessarily productive of delay, if not difficulty. Perhaps it was not going too far to say, that all such orders were in a manner illegal; but yet, if such were not allowed, and to a certain extent, it would be impossible in such times to carry on a foreign trade at all. But even admitting this, he would yet say, that when the hon. gent. had complained of such licences, as being unconstitutional, he should have adverted to the circumstance of an act having been passed in the 43d of the king, authorising such grants of licences. As an illustration of the difficulty arising out of this distinction of legality or illegality, he would adduce an instance of 300 licences being granted within a certain period of time. Now, according to the present wording of the motion, those 300 could not be laid before the house till they had been submitted to the revision of the privy council, and till the privy council had decided which were in their opinion legal or illegal. He wished, therefore, to obvi for, which he believed could not be so readily obtained by the motion as it originally stood; for the very merchants who solicited for licences were in many instances totally independent of those licences, though, for a very justifiable caution, they had applied for such licences. Mr. Horner replied to the general observations of the right hon. gent. as affecting the distinction of the legality or illegality of the licences, and denied that the 43d of the king, as cited by the right hon. gent. applied, because the object of that act related merely to a temporary suspension of the navigation act. The Chancellor of the Exchequer defended the necessity of this discretionary power being vested in the privy council, and said that the object of all such orders was to ease the subject under the operation of the strict letter of the law. He took this opportunity of repeating his doubts of the propriety or necessity of asking parliament for an indemnity, with respect to the or ders in council, in as much as it did not appear that in this instance more had been done than had been done before, and in a manner legalized by the act already al |