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Mr. Croker, the motion was negatived without a division.

[CONDUCT OF MARQUIS WELLESLEY.]Lord Folkestone moved the order of the day for taking into consideration the papers; and on the question that they be now taken into consideration,

ing into consideration the model' upon which it was formed. The justification of some of them was the perfidy of the prince who was dethroned; but would it be contended, that all the princes who had fallen the victims of his policy were equally perfidious? And if a general view was taken of the whole policy of his administration, what light, he would ask, was there to guide the house in forming its decision? The hon. gent. quoted the opinion of the court of directors, as it was expressed in a printed dispatch that had been published, in which that court, while it expressed a high consideration for the talents of marq. Wellesley, condemned in the most pointed terms, the general tenor of his administration, as contrary to the existing laws, as an open defiance of the authority of the directors, and as an attempt, on his part, to convert the government of India into a simple despotism. In the same dispatch the profusion of his expenditure was cen sured, and the whole of his conduct to foreign powers reprobated, as a departure from those principles of moderation by which they were desirous that the governor-general should be actuated. Here

The Chancellor of the Exchequer called the hon. gent. to order, upon the ground that at the opening of a proceeding, instead of arguing upon matters of fact, he was bringing forward the opinions of those who were to be considered in the light of accusers.

Mr. Creevey rose to give his negative to the proposition, for two reasons: in the first place, because it was impossible for the house to come to a decision upon the conduct of the marquis Wellesley, without at the same time deciding upon the general question of Indian policy; and in the second place, because it was quite impossible that gentlemen could so have digested materials which would fill seven volumes, and which had been collected from the administration of that country, during a period of 17 years, which had been moved for by different persons, and with different views, and which brought into comparison the administrations of lord Teignmouth and the marquis Cornwallis with that of the marquis Wellesley, as to be able to decide upon the merits of that complicated system with which the conduct and character of the last mentioned nobleman were inseparably interwoven. The papers were in such confusion that it was indispensible that they should be arranged before they could be perused, so as to convey the information necessary to enable the house to form a judgment upon the facts to which they related; and though he was pretty generally acquainted with Dr. Laurence on the other side, conthem, he had not met with three gentle-tended, that his hon. friend was completely men who had read them. The course, in order, because in stating his objections therefore, which he would recommend to the proceeding, it was certainly com was, that they should be referred to a petent for him to mention the grounds of committee. He did not care how that those objections, and his reasons for thinkcommittee was formed. He had no ob-ing that a different course should be jection that the three brothers of the noble adopted. marquis should be members of it, and it should be appointed exclusively by the hon. gentlemen on the treasury bench. As matters now stood, the house could not enter into a discussion of the question, because it was connected with a variety of others which required a detailed examination. The question before the house was the propriety of the treaty by which the Nabob of Oude was dethroned and stript of his territory. But this was not a solitary instance of this species of policy. He had concluded many treaties of the same kind, and each was referred to in his instructions to his agents as a model for the other. They could not, therefore, decide upon one treaty without also tak

The Chancellor of the Exchequer asserted, that it was irregular to refer to opinions which were not before the house.

The Speaker then decided, that if this parliament had refused the document which the hon. member was quoting, it would never consent to receive that indirectly which it had directly refused. But if the paper had not been refused by this parliament, he was of opinion that the hon. gent. was perfectly in order when he made use of it in the course of his argument.

Mr. Creevey proceeded to read another part of the dispatch, in which the system adopted by the marquis Wellesley, for extending the territory and increasing the revenues of the company, was reprobated

men who had not made themselves masters of the papers, who, he was convinced, formed a large majority of the house.

as unjust, illegal, and impolitic. He contended, that it would be extremely rash for the house, in the face of an opinion so decidedly pronounced by those who were Sir John Anstruther called the attention the best judges of the subject, and with an of the house to the present state of the unanimity almost unparalleled (this dis- proceedings. Three parliaments ago, a patch having been signed by 23 out of 24 charge had been brought against marquis Directors) to come to a decision with their Wellesley, by an hon. gent. (Mr. Paull) present inadequate means of information, who was no longer a member of that house; directly the reverse of this opinion, which all the evidence necessary for supporting would be the effect of a resolution of ac- the charge, had been moved for and grantquittal, passed in favour of marquis Wel- ed; an inquiry had been challenged by lesley. It ought to be considered, too, the friends of the noble marquis, the charge that the very circumstance of the marquis originally brought forward had been abanCornwallis having been sent out to super-doned, but upon the papers that had been sede marquis Wellesley, then in the prime of life, in the government of India, was a proof that a disapprobation of his conduct was not confined to the court of directors, but that government likewise participated in it. It had been said, that any farther delay would be extremely hard towards lord Wellesley. He admitted that it was hard upon lord Wellesley. But was there not a third party who likewise merited some consideration ? Would it not be hard on the East India Company to be defrauded of their possessions, in consequnce of his mal-administration? or would it not be hard upon the country if, in consequence of his measures, its Indian dominions should be severed from it for ever? What he wished was, that this question should be examined as all other Indian questions had been examined. For if the noble marquis had, during his administration, furnished more materials for discussion than any other governor, it would scarcely be maintained that, on that account, a decision should be more speedily adopted. He thought that one of two expedients should be recurred to, either that the house ought to follow the same course that had been pursued in 1772 and 1782, and that a committee ought in the first place to be appointed to make a compleat revision of the affairs of India, or that if lord Wellesley's conduct was to be discussed separately, that the evidence before them should be previously arranged by a select committee, so as to render it intelligible; which it was not in its present form. Were parliament to come to a decision upon the conduct of that noble person by this night's vote, he asserted it they would commit an act of injustice to the noble marquis, and that it would be wanting in its duty both to itself and to the country; and in proposing some farther delay, he fully expected the support of those gentle

produced, other accusations had been founded by a noble lord, and this night had been fixed for the house to pronounce upon the justice or injustice of these accusations. Nothing had been said of any deficiency of evidence, or of any confu sion of papers, till about ten days ago. He contended, that the delay now proposed, was neither more nor less than an attempt to arrest the course of justice, in as far as lord Wellesley was concerned, for the purpose of entering into a detailed examination of the affairs of India, and to blend two subjects which were totally different and distinct. The Dispatch which had been read, ought to have no more weight with the house, than the opinion of 24 printers, and it would have been only fair in the hon. gent. when he read it to the house, to have read also the Answer to it, which was made by the Board of Controul, whose opinion he thought was fully as valuable upon such a question as that of the Court of Directors. Upon the general merits of lord Wellesley's administration, he should be ready to meet either the hon. gent. or any other person, when they came to be discussed. At present, that question was not before the house, and after the delay which had already taken place, he thought the house could not consent to postpone their decision upon the particular and personal charges, without committing an act of gross injustice to the noble and distinguished individual whose character was implicated in them.

Mr. Robert Thornton professed his decided disapprobation most highly of many of the political measures of the noble marquis, at the same time he wished that the house should decide upon the charges that had been brought against him with dispatch as well as with boldness. For this reason he was against the appointment of a committee, because that mode of pro

ceeding would tend to postpone a decision | another course of proceeding, he was not which had already been too long delayed. prepared to resist it. He hoped the house He animadverted with severity upon the would not judge of the conduct of the backwardness which had been shewn by court of directors on an ex parte statement, some gentlemen at a certain period, to pro- but that their case, as well as that of the secute the charges which they had pledged noble marquis, would be considered with themselves to institute, and alluded par- reference to the whole of the circumstanticularly to the conduct of Mr. Sheridan, ces. in declining, while in the last administration, to bring forward the Carnatic question, because he found that it would not be agreeable to some of his colleagues. His wish was, that the character of lord Wellesley should be either cleared by a vote of the house, or that the censure should be passed upon him which his conduct had merited. He denied that the Directors of the East India Company appeared as the accusers of lord Wellesley, but he, along with many of his colleagues, had disapproved of many of his measures, and it was necessary, in their own defence, that they should state the grounds of this disapprobation.

Mr. S. Lushington contended, that the only mode of doing justice either to marquis Wellesley, to the injured natives of India, or to the character of the British nation, was to institute a general inquiry into all the measures of the noble marquis's administration,

Mr. Hall thought that if the house had any sense of national justice, or any regard for its own character, it would not suffer any further delay to retard its final decision upon this question.

Mr. S. L. Lushington asserted that already British India had to lament the measures which had lately been adopted in this country. The charge in the present instance he maintained was personal, and therefore ought to be decided without further delay.

Lord A. Hamilton was of opinion, that as gentlemen were not very forward to encounter the obloquy of taking up such charges, and the noble lord had undertaken this with such laudable attention, the business ought not to be taken out of his hands. If his hon. friend should hereafter propose a committee to inquire into the transactions in the Carnatic, or at Furruckabad, he would be ready to support him; but in the present instance he thought the course proposed by his noble friend should not be rejected.

Mr. Grant would have supported the motion for a committee, if that, had been originally proposed; but as the noble lord had taken up the question with a view to

Mr. Windham rose, amidst a loud cry for the question. He said that he certainly should not be deterred from delivering his sentiments on this occasion by any such cry, more particularly as it was this importunity for the question which he was desirous to combat, and which he hoped to be able to do with somewhat better argument than mere clamour. He confessed, however, that he had little to say, on the present occasion, in addition to what he had stated on a former evening. The question now before the house was, whether it would come to a decision now upon a subject of the greatest magnitude and importance, or defer that decision till they were competent to judge of it? If it was asked, why the house was not competent to decide upon it now, he would leave it to every gentleman to give an answer for himself. He believed, that not one in 20 members had read the papers, and if this was the case, it was a sufficient reply to all that had been said on the opposite side. He allowed that marquis Wellesley was a man of high rank, of considerable talents, and that his conduct had been arraigned; but none of these circumstances was sufficient to counterbalance the material consideration of the incapacity of the tribunal in its present state of information, to pass a decision upon the charges which had been brought against him.

The accusations which had been lodged against him were what were incident to the lot of every great man. They were taxes which greatness and distinction had to pay, nor was the noble marquis so destitute of friends, or so run down in the world, that they bore upon him with any peculiar degree of weight. On the contrary, if his conduct was arraigned it ought to be recollected that it was in the nature of that conduct to beget friends. He denied that there had been any unnecessary delay. It was not fair in calculating this to count the number of parliaments since the subject was first introduced to notice, for the present parliament was not supposed to be acquainted with the proceedings which had been instituted by any preceding parliament. And when

the period during which the present dis- |
cussions had been pending was considered,
it certainly did not afford any reason for
such a complaint, when it was compared
with the time that was occupied with the
prosecution either of Mr. Hastings or lord
Clive. But even supposing that there had
been more delay than was necessary, this
was no reason why the house ought to pass
a premature and precipitate decision. It
might be said, to be sure, that members
might have carried the papers to the
country with them during the recess, but
since parliament met there had been such
a press of other business as completely to
occupy their time. But even if they were
chargeable with remissness, that was no
reason why they should now pass a judg-deration of the question to-night.
ment for which they were totally unpre-
pared. In such circumstances, an acquit-
tal would be no acquittal, and condemna-
tion would be no more than condemnation.
He had made himself so far master of the
subject as to have formed an opinion very
unfavourable certainly to many parts of
the noble marquis's administration, but
what he wished was, that some farther de-
lay should be granted to those who had
not made themselves masters of the sub-
ject. He concluded with deprecating a
hasty decision upon a question in which
the national character was most deeply
involved. Were the house, by a vote this
evening, to give its sanction to all the fla-
gitious outrages which had been commit-
ted in India against the rights of indepen-
dent princes, in violation of all the princi-
ples of justice, honour, and good faith, he
was afraid that, in the estimation of the
world, this country would stand chargea-
ble with many of those crimes which we
had reprobated so much in others, but of
which we had in several recent instances,
he was afraid, been too successful imita-

papers in their present state, would read
them after they were arranged, or that
they would read the report, which would
probably be still more voluminous than
the papers?

Sir T. Turton exhorted the house not to hurry a proceeding of such great import ance.

This was not a case in which a private person alone was interested. It affected the rights of a whole people, who had no tribunal but that house to whom to apply for justice. They had no friend but that house, and if it slighted the appeal now made, it forfeited its own character and honour, and the character and honour of the country. At all events, he trusted it was not meant to proceed to the consi

tors.

Mr. B. Bathurst said, that if the house was unprepared to decide upon the question now, this want of preparation might be a good reason for adjourning the debate to some future day, but it did not appear to him that it furnished ground for instituting a new proceeding. In proposing to appoint a select committee one or two. objects must be in view, either that this committee should merely form an index to the papers, or that it should enter into an investigation of the whole affairs of India, and report thereupon to the house. But, in either case, what security had they that those gentlemen who had not read the VOL. X.

Sir S. Romilly admitted that justice to the noble marquis required that no unnecessary delay should take place. Justice, however, could not be done to him, and, what was of still higher importance, to the national character, if the house came to a premature decision. A great deal had been said of the number of parliaments which had passed since the papers were laid on the table; let it, however, be recollected, that there were many members in that house who had sat there for not more than seven months, not one of whom, of course, had heard a single word on the subject of these papers, which could enable them to form any idea as to the facts which they were meant to substantiate; and yet they were now called on to give a decision on evidence of which they did not know the bearing. This was said to be a question personal to the noble marquis, but still it was no less a judicial question, and he had never yet heard of any proceeding by which a fair result of such a question could be obtained, unless those who were to judge of it, were previously acquainted with the facts charged, and the nature of the defence. Was there a man in that house prepared at the present moment to say, that he was ready to come to a right decision on the case? He had, with great inconvenience to himself, gone through a considerable part of these papers, and if obliged to come to his decision this night, he must give it against the noble marquis, though he did not say, that in the mass of evidence before the house, there might not be evidence in the noble marquis's favour of which he was at present ignorant. He was of opinion, that to send the evidence to a committee to return a digested report of it to the house, would be the only means 2 Z

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of arriving at substantial justice. None, he was convinced, ought to desire this so anxiously as the friends of the marquis, and nothing could be more unsatisfactory than a premature decision.

amendment to be withdrawn, in order to allow the house to decide, whether it would proceed in a house, or refer the case to a committee. When that question should be decided, the proper time for proceeding might be considered; and he was of opinion, that to-morrow would be preferable to to-morrow se'nnight. It was a vacant day, and it was agreed that it was desirable to hear the noble lord's charges stated as soon as possible.

Sir F. Burdett withdrew his amendment for deferring the further proceeding to to morrow se'nnight.

Sir A. Wellesley said, it was for the house to decide what mode of proceeding would best suit its own convenience and the ends of justice; but, he contended, that it had been always asked, and it was the only thing that was asked, on the part of the noble marquis, that the case should be brought to as speedy a decision, as a regard to justice and fair inquiry would allow. The propriety of this principle Lord Folkestone was ready, for his own had been laid down and enforced by the part, to proceed to-morrow; but he underhighest authority on all sides of the house, stood the gentlemen about him preferred and among others, by an hon. gent, now to-morrow se'nnight. A division was then no more (Mr. Fox), whose opinion would called for, when there appeared, For the weigh very much with the gentlemen on orginal motion, 21. For referring the the other side. He did not suppose that bussiness to a committee 34.-While the every member had read the papers word gallery was shut a conversation took place for word: but he was satisfied there were about the proper time of taking the subvery few who had not read them suffici-ject into consideration again, when it was ently to enable them to give a conscien- agreed to make the order for to-morrow tious vote. All that he asked now, was se'nnight. what he had asked before, as speedy a decision as the house in its sense of justice could admit.

Lord Folkestone, thought the house was sufficiently in possession, at least of the main facts of the case, to come to a decision on the Oude question at once, without going into the general policy of the system of government in India, which he thought belonged more properly to the general consideration of the Finances of India, of which the right hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Dundas) had given notice, or the other general view of that part of the empire to be brought forward by the hon. gent. below him (Mr. Creevey). It was their own fault if any gentlemen were unprepared to come to the decision.

Sir. F. Burdett thought it impossible to decide this night upon the merits of the case, when the minds of gentlemen were not made up as to the proper form of proceeding. He moved as an amendment to the motion, the insertion of the words "to-morrow se'nnight," instead of the word "now.

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Lord Folkestone agreed in the impossibility of going into the merits of the case at so late an hour this night. He was ready to agree in the hon. baronet's :motion, if the house thought fit.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer allowed, that it was impossible to go into the merits of the case this night. He wished the

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tuesday, February 23.

PETITION FROM OLDHAM RESPECTING PEACE.] Col. Stanley presented a Petition from the inhabitants of Oldham and its neighbourhood, in the county Palatine of Lancaster, setting forth, "That the petitioners experience great inconvenience from a considerable depression of their trade, a depression which causes a reduction in the wages of labour unprecedented in the most afflicting times heretofore known, and which renders it difficult for the most industrious and healthy workman to procure for himself and family the bare necessaries of life; that the manufacturer is unable to afford him any lasting relief, for, even with this reduced state of wages, he cannot find a market for his goods that will return him a profit adequate to his expences and risks; that in the train of these distresses follow the increase of the poor rates, the numerous assignments, bankruptcies, and all the various acts whereby the property of others becomes injured and insecure; that the petitioners are persuaded, that the ultimate cause of most of the evils here complained of is the war in which we are unfortunately engaged, which has been prolonged to an unusual length, and which the powers of the continent alledge we intend to make perpetual,

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