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noble lord moved accordingly, « That the the 2000l. a-year; but to the, grant of
annual sum of 2000l. nett be granted to 9000l. and the expence of a public monu-
his majesty out of the Consolidated Fund ment, he should decidedly object.
of Great Britain, the said Annuity to com Mr. W. Dundas supported the claims to
mence from the 11th Sept. 1803, and be the pension and the monument.

He
settled in the most beneficial manner upon thought it the strongest recommendation
visc. Lake, and the two next succeeding of lord Lake, that he had returned from
heirs male of gen. visc. Lake, deceased, filling one of the highest offices in India,
on whom the title of visc. Lake and baron comparatively poor.
Lake, of Delhi and Laswary, and of Aston Mr. M. A. Taylor admitted that lord
Clinton, in the county of Buckingham, Lake had had liberal allowances to sup-
shall descend.

port his dignity in the station he had filled ; Mr. Whitbread said, although he had no but his expences were fully equal to them. objection to go with the noble lord in the The splendour of his appointments, the very high encomiums he had bestowed hospitality of an open table for his officers, upon the military character of lord Lake, and the well-known acts of his private and to acknowledge that he had rendered munificence, had prevented him from acimportant services to his country, yet, cumulating money; and when it was rewhatever might be his own wish that those collected, that, at his decease, the only services should be remunerated with libe- provision he was able to make for his seves rality, still he felt it a duty paramount ral daughters was 1500 1. each, he was conto all delicacy upon the subject to declare fident, that a British house of commons his sentiments, when the purse of the would never consider such a provision country, already so heavily burthened, adequate for the daughters of such a man. was in question. His majesty's message Happy would it be for England, and for proposed to the house, merely a provision India, if every commander sent thither of 2000 l. a-year to the two next heirs in imitated the principles and the conduct of succession of gen. Lake ; but the noble lord Lake! He did not use his

power

for lord had now proposed not merely to ex- the purposes of plunder to enrich his fatend this annuity to another generation, mily. He returned from India with only but to give it a retrospective operation, to a forturie of 40,000l. to provide for a wife no less an amount than 90001. The noble and seven children. Sir John Stewart lord had pleaded, in excuse for not having had received his pension in consequence sooner proposed this remuneration, the of his services; and that gallant general, great distance at which gen. Lake was ; although a single man, had declared to but that circumstance did not preclude the him he never could save any thing from knowledge of his services, nor prevent his the allowances assigned him; but if milimajesty from immediate remuneration, if tary officers who happened to be married it were deemed necessary ; but at the end were to devote their whole lives to their of five years to bring forward this propo- country's service, and were taught not to sition, and to claim arrears for all that look up to their country for any provision time, though no remuneration was till now for their children, left destitute by their thought necessary, was what he could not deaths, it were better to pass a law at accede to. The noble lord had been in once, binding them to chastity like Catholic possession of very lucrative employments, priests, and thereby prevent them from which enabled him to receive large sums having children to provide for. of money; so large, indeed, as to render Lord Castlereagh had 'not thought it neit quite indecorous to come forward during cessary to be so particular in stating the his life-time with such a proposition as narrow circumstances of lord Lake's fathis; but no sooner was he deceased, than mily; but he believed, that in fact, these it was found out that his affairs were so ladies would take, under the will, little embarrassed as to leave his heirs totally more than half the sum mentioned by the unable to support the dignity of the rank hon. member who had just sat down. they inherited. Certainly, the condition General Tarleton supported the motion, of the family of lord Lake, as represented and detailed the particulars of the storming by the noble lord, rendered the duty ex of the trenches at Lincelles, defended by tremely painful of disapproving any pro-6000 French troops, by 1600 British under vision for the successor of the noble lord ; , lord Lake. It was an additional claim, and to prevent, as it were, the peerage that the noble lord had returned from from being sullied, he would consent to India in circumstances that formed a direct

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contrast with those in which Lucullus re- | inclination to withhold his just claim, gave turned from Asia, and Massena from Italy. that noble lord, in his opinion, a greater There could be nothing, in his opinion, title to the gratitude of his country. He more honourable to that noble lord's cha- even thought, that what was proposed to racter, than that he returned from India be granted was not sufficient, and nothing poor, and died honourable. As to the prevented him from moving for a greater proposed monument, it had his hearty as- allowance, but his unwillingness to intersent, as he was convinced there was not fere with those whose duty it was to suga greater idol throughout the whole army gest and propose what they conceived than the late lord Lake.

proper upon such an occasion. Lord Folkestone said, he felt disagreeable Colonel Wood said, that he never rose sensations in opposing this resolution, but with greater satisfaction than he did in he did it upon general grounds. If the supporting this motion, for if ever there argument that had been used as to the late was a man entitled to the gratitude and lord Lake's poverty was good for any esteem of his country, it was lord Lake. thing, it must go to this, that if any person Hewas unwilling to detract from the merits who had signalized himself in the service of lord Howe, but he could not help thinkof his country, should, notwithstanding his ing, that the eminent services of lord Lake, lucrative situation, die, leaving his family in India, were of infinitely greater imporpoor, they were to become a burden upon tance to the country, and well entitled him the public. He should forbear discussing to that monument which was proposed to the general services and merits of lord be raised to his memory. Lake, as he had heard no arguments used Mr. W. Smith said, that he had informathat could justify the motion that had been tion which induced him to believe, that made. He could not agree that a monu- although lord Lake might have died worth ment should be erected to his memory at only 40,000!. he brought with him from the public expence, as that was an honour India nearer 140,0001. He thought that that ought not to be conferred on any in all such cases a committee should be officer who had not fallen in the moment appointed to inquire into the actual cirof victory.

cumstances of those who claimed penEarl Temple differed from the noble lord sions. If lord Lake's poverty proceeded who had just sat down, as he could not merely from his neglecting to embrace the conceive there could be a greater claim opportunities which presented themselves to public gratitude than that which had to him of enriching himself, it would be the been stated. In his opinion, lord Lake's brightest jewel in his character. He had, having returned from India to this country, however, reason to believe that such was and dying under the circumstances that not the fact. He had, however, no objechad been represented, not only entitled his tion to the peerage being accompanied with family to the consideration of the public, a pension, as he thought not only dignity but shewed that he had acted in a manner but independence should be attached to highly creditable to himself, and honour a peerage. He had understood, that the able to the nation. He trusted, however, real cause of lord Lake's dying in such that the house would 'not suffer his children moderate circumstances, was, that he had to remain in such a state of honourable honourably discharged out of the money poverty.

he made in India, those immense debts Mr. Sumner contributed his testimony which he had previously contracted in to the eminent services and qualifications this country. of the noble general. It was true, that Sir A. Wellesley said, that it was very the emoluments of his situation were great, true that lord Lake was greatly in debt but his private charities, and his generosi- previous to his going to India, and to the ty to the officers engaged in the same discharge of those debts, the residue of service, exhausted his fortune to an ex his

pay and appointments, after the necestent which it would be difficult to ascer sary expence of his establishment was detain. As to the observation, that the ap- ducted, was constantly applied, and paid plication might have been made sooner, over to an agent that went from England he should only remind the house, that so for that purpose. As to the circumstances long as lord Lake was in the enjoyment of of lord Lake's family, he knew that his fasuch emoluments abroad, his disposition mily estate only amounted to about 8001. was such that he disdained making any ap a year, and that the money that he died plication for further rewards at home. This worth was only from 35,0001, to 40,0001,

Such being the actual state of his circum- , world. In the present circumstances of stances, it was evident that the dignity of the country, when the people of England the peerage could not be supported by were burthened and exhausted with taxahis successor, nor his family provided for, tion, he did not think that any extraordiunless the house should agree to grant the nary grants of money should be voted as a pension.

remuneration for services which were not Mr. Whitbread did not deny that lord in themselves of extraordinary merit. Lake had performed great services; but This was the whole of the personal objecstill he did not think those services of so tion, as he did not deny that lord Lake pre-eminent a nature as to be entitled to was a gallant officer, and had performed such extraordinary rewards. In the ac some services, although he differed with tual circumstances of lord Lake's family, many hon. members as to the value of those he could not object to the usual pension of services. -His great objection, however, 2,000l. per annum, although he must ob- to the grant, was upon constitutional ject to the additional grant. Applications grounds. He thought that his majesty to the house for pensions of this descrip- had ample resources and means to reward tion were made on the ground of services, every merit of this nature, and that there and not of poverty. When the great duke was no necessity for applying to parliaof Marlborough rendered the nation im- ment to lay a new burden upon

the

peoportant services, they were most munifi- ple. He should ask, what had become of cently rewarded. The munificence of the all those sinecures which were at the disponation in this respect, was not on account sal of the crown, and under the patronage of the circumstances of the duke of Marl- of ministers? Whenever they had been alborough, for he was not a poor man, but luded to in that house, it was always argued it was proportioned to the services he had by ministers, that these things were very performed. If lord Lake had performed necessary, in order to enable the crown to services of that description, the reward reward eminent services; but, whenever would have gone on the same principle. there were any eminent services to be reHe believed that lord Lake was a very warded, instead of giving any of those brave officer, and much beloved by the places which it was pretended that they army; but mere gallantry as an officer ought to have the patronage of, for the did not entitle any man to claim such re reward of eminent services, the real rewards. If it were so, the hon. generals ward was always made to come by imwho had spoken might also claim pensions posing an additional burden on the peoof 2,0001. a year : although the house ple. He should wish to ask the gentlemight be very well prepared to admit their on the other side, what kind of merits, yet they would be very unwilling eminent services those were, for the reto grant them the pensions. In the present ward of which those things were given? case, he saw no other plea for the extraor- They were services which never saw the dinary grant, except the necessities of lord light-services which none but the minisLake's family.

ters knew any thing about. When, howMr. Lushington said, that, as it was stated ever, any real service was performed, they that the fortunes of lord Lake's daughters applied to parliament to reward it, by laydid not exceed 1500l. he thought it would ing additional burdens on an exhausted be much better to give the sum of 90001. people. On this principle, he felt it his duty among

the

younger children, than make it to take the sense of the house upon the a present to the inheritor of the title. motion, and call for a division. As to the

Sir F. Burdett rose to enter his protest merits of lord Lake, he thought that was a against the grant. He had two objec- very minor consideration. Whatever the tions; one on personal grounds, and the merits of that gallant officer might be, the other upon constitutional grounds. The remuneration he received was not behind personal objection was this, that when any them. There were many other gallant individual came forward to claim a pen- officers who had performed services which sion on the ground of services, those ser had been by no means rewarded in the vices should be of a very distinguished proportion that lord Lake's had been. He nature. There ought not to be any ne

believed that if lord Lake were now alive, cessity for asking when and where those he could not consent to put in a claim for services were performed; but they should additional grants to reward his services, be services of that brilliant kind, that the which grants must be another burden imfame of them should ring through the posed upon an exhausted people. If his

men

merits had been great, the merits of the cessity people of England were not small. They If, then had submitted with unexampled patience necessit to privations and sufferings of every kind. must be If all merit was to be rewarded, where was of the I their merit to find its remuneration or re knowler ward ? The only reward which they could cool an receive was from the watchful attention of and tha the house over their purse, and to prevent where in any unnecessary burdens being imposed in the t on them. From these considerations, he tinguish felt it his duty to oppose the motion. tion in

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that he often he should not feel it necessary to trouble means. the house with many observations, as the his broti grounds stated by his noble friend ap- | the sic! peared so generally to meet the approba- soldiers. tion of the house. He perfectly agreed baronet with the hon. baronet who spoke last, that this natu the people of England had a right now, suffer frs and at all times, to claim from that house Mr. I a vigilant attention to the economical ma cumstan nagement of their affairs' ; but he believed voting fo the hon. baronet would not convince the neral, th house or the country, that parsimony in economy rewarding eminent services was the best propriet or truest economy. If, as the hon. baronet | he did i had stated, the present times were times ever hav of great peril, there was the more neces if it had sity for marking their sense of distinguish the battl ed military services. He could not see

held suc what practical object could be accom tions. I plished by declamations on the merits of wishes a the people of England, although it was ble retr undoubtedly true that they had considera- ture, but ble merit in bearing so well the burdens cipating which the necessity of the times imposed delivered

But how was this merit to he conc be rewarded? Was it by giving them effect e pensions of this nature? If not, he did disappro not see how that argument bore upon the discrimi present question. The hon. baronet had bestowin talked of the unexampled means which sufficien the crown possessed of rewarding merit of and who this sort. He knew of no such unex

sioners o ampled means; and the hon. baronet people. might have known, that the crown was sort give limited in the power of granting pensions guished on the Civil List, and could not give a

of. As greater pension than 1,2001. per annum, believe t which, after all deductions, would not pro- of lord duce more than 800l. per annum clear; ferred and that would be evidently inadequate those wh for the reward of such services as those of field of lord Lake.

General Gascoyne' observed, that while the perse the hon. baronet thought that the merit of any obs lord Lake was no ground for the pension, actuated a noble lord who sat behind him (lord means Folkestone) had contended, that the ne- racter or

upon them.

ever, to

The me

merits had been great, the merits of the cessity of his family was no ground erher. people of England were not small

. They If, then, both the grounds of merit and had submitted with unexampled patience necessity were taken away, the motive to privations and sufferings of every kind. must be, of course, rejected

. In speaking If all merit was to be rewarded, where was of the merit of lord Lake, from his owa their merit to find its remuneration or re- knowledge, he would say, that he was as ward? The only reward wbich they could cool and intrepid as any man in action receive was from the watchful attention of and that his generosity was shewn nothe house over their purse, and to prevent where in a more conspicuous manner than any unnecessary burdens being imposed in the field of battle. He not only dison them. From these considerations, he tinguished himself for his humane attefelt it his duty to oppose the motion. tion in visiting the sick and wounded

, but The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that he often supplied their wants from his owa he should not feel it necessary to trouble means. His table was not only open to the house with many observations, as the his brother officers, but bis wine rent or grounds stated by his noble friend ap- the sick and wounded of the private prared so generally to meet the approba soldiers. He did not think that the fra tion of the house. He perfectly agreed / baronet would condemn an expenditure ai with the hon. baronet who spoke last, that this nature, or think that his family should the people of England had a right now, suffer from his well-directed liberality. and at all times, to claim from that house Mr. Bankes said, that, under all the cir

: a vigilant attention to the economical ma-cumstances of the case, he must agree in na gement of their alfairs ; but be believed voting for the motion. He believed, in F. the hon. baronet would not convince the neral, that the rewarding merit was the best house or the country, that parsimony in economy; yet although he agreed in the rewarding eminent services was the best propriety of the pension being now grante or truest economy. If, as the hon. baronet he did not believe that the house could had stated, the present times were times ever have been persuaded to agree to it of great peril, there was the more neces- if it had been applied for immediately after sity for marking their sense of distinguish- the battle of Delhi, and when lord Lake ed military services. He could not see held such important and lucrative situawhat practical object could be accom- tions. He believed that he carried his plished by declamations on the merits of wishes as far as any man for every parv the people of England, although it was ble retrenchment in the public expendiundoubtedly true that they had considera- ture, but he disclaimed the idea of partihle merit in bearing so well the burdens cipating in the sentiments which had bees

to take away any thing from the fame and services, a pension should be vo glory which he had acquired.

that house. He should now take the Lord G. Cavendish agreed with the hon. tunity to lay in his claim to protest member who spoke last, that titles ought this doctrine on a future day, if it sh not to be bestowed without great consi- proposed in favour of other ner deration, both of the services of the indi- peers; but as for lord Lake, it must vidual and of his means to support the lowed that it was almost impossible dignity and independence of the peerage. British officer to be placed in a hi He thought the peerage was often very more responsible situation than 1 improperly given to military men, whose and then the question would be, how services were by no means of the first perform his duty in that situation ? order. This, however, was not the case been generally admitted, that no with respect to the gallant officer, whose could have conducted himself wit merits and whose claims were now under integrity. He could speak fro consideration. He should think the house means of information which the si would act in a niggardly manner, if they he had lately held (President of the were to refuse what was now proposed for of Controul) gave him. the family of lord Lake.

lord Lake were not merely in the Mr. Lyttleton said, that although he did battle, but he conducted himsel not pretend to be a perfect judge of the great ability in some delicate negoc military merits of lord Lake, yet every with the native powers of India body had agreed that the merits of the thought a person placed in a hiç noble lord were conspicuous, and that if responsible situation, and who wa they were not of the first class, they at nently successful, did deserve the least approximated very much to the first and that the grant proposed was a

ре class. Instead of wishing that services of much. The utmost pension whi this nature should be rewarded by the crown had the power of bestowing, crown, without the intervention of parlia- was 1200 l. per annum nominall ment, he should wish the rewards of merit really no more than 8001. would and public service to flow more immedi- no means an adequate remunerati ately from the people. He wished the such services. As to a public mon patronage of the crown was retrenched; he could wish that that honour sho and he thought the ministers would have reserved exclusively to those genera come down to the house with much more received their death in the field of grace, if, when they made an application The East India company were, hd for this grant, they had pointed out a cor often liberal in those things; and responding retrenchment.

principal services had been perform The Secretary at War bore testimony to India, he thought it would be bec the professional merit and important ser in them to take this part of the es vices of lord Lake. He thought, that upon upon themselves. constitutional grounds, it would be dan Mr. W. Smith said, that from the gerous

and improper that poverty and the ments he had now heard, he wished peerage should be associated together. tract the opinion he had expressed

Mr. Tierney expressed a fear, that it the public monument. He defend would be considered, that the house shew- observations of the hon. baronet fr ed too great a readiness to dispose of the constructions which had been pug public money. He agreed implicitly with them. the hon. baronet, that the house should Sir F. Burdett said, that he had anxiously watch over the expenditure of most entirely misrepresented by th the public money; but he did not think hon. the chancellor of the exched the people would thank him for his anxiety to what he had said about the means in watchiug over the public expenditure, the crown possessed of rewarding e so far as to refuse a well-merited reward services. He had not alluded to the to a gallant officer. The first question sion list, or thought of it; he alluc which he thought ought to be considered rectly to the great offices, sinecures a was, whether he had deserved the peerage versions, which ministers always pr or not; and secondly, whether the grant ed were necessary, in order to allproposed was a proper one.

He would crown the means of rewarding er

He was surprized that th hot however allow, that whenever a peer- services. age was granted on account of military hon. gent. should have mistaken his

which the necessity of the times imposed delivered by the hon. baronet, and which upon them. But how was this merit to he conceived would produce no other be rewarded? Was it by giving them effect except to cause discontent pensions of this nature? If not, he did disapproved, generally, of the want a not see how that argument bore upon the discrimination on the part of ministers i present question. The hon. baronst had / bestowing titles upon persons who had ni talked of the unexampled means which sufficient fortune to support their rank the crown possessed of rewarding merit of and who must then become either penthis sort.

He knew of no such unex- sioners of the crown, or burdens upon the unpled means ; and the hon. baronet people

. There were more pensions of this night have known, that the crown was sort given to persons of the most distinimited in the power of granting pensions guished rank than the country were aware in the Civil List, and could not give a of. As to a public Monument

, he did mei greater pension than 1,200l. per annum, believe there was any case since the death shich, after all deductions, would not pro- of lord Howe, where that honour was cosluce more than 800l. per annum clear; / ferred on any military officers

, except

ind that would be evidently inadequate those who died or received wounds in the or the reward of such services as those of field of battle. He begged leave

, boword Lake.

ever, to assure the military men who were General Gascoyne observed, that while the personal friends of lord Lake, that in he hon. baronet thought that the merit of any observations he made, he was only ord Lake was no ground for the pension, actuated by public motives, and by noble lord who sat behind him (lord means wished to derogate from the chaolkestone) had contended, that the ne-racter or services of that gallant officer

, en

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