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no hesitation in saying, that I had much rather the seals of the foreign office were { in the hands of lord Hawkesbury, than in those of their present possessor. In lord Hawkesbury's correspondence, there ap- 1 pears to be a frankness, a simplicity, and a temper which are totally wanting in the correspondence of the right hon. gent. and which are very ill compensated by the smartness and satire so conspicuous in his dispatches. If therefore, the administra- 1 tion must needs consist of the same component parts, I could wish, for the advantage of the country, that these two persons should change situations. But, sir, however material it may be to review the conduct of ministers, and for the house to express its opinion upon that conduct, what 1 is past is of much less importance than | | what is to come; and it remains to be considered what course we ought now to pursue. What is past is lamentable, but i irremediable; what is to come requires : the utmost efforts of human wisdom to

t turn to the best account. If I shall have persuaded the house, or any considerable s proportion of it, that at no period the experiment of negociation has been carried ! to the utmost; and that in the two lasti instances, it was not the perverseness of France, but the folly of England, which i prevented our entering into negociation, I shall have effected a great deal, because I shall have persuaded the house, or such persons in it upon whom my arguments may have made any impression, that theyt ought not to cast away all hope of peace, and that it is not necessary to stifle all desire of it. My opinion is now what it has been from the commencement of the first revolutionary war: peace has been all along essential to the interests, it is now more than at any preceding period necessary to the salvation of the country. I deny the insane proposition, that peace is more dangerous than war. I will not assert that, with peace we can insure safety, it but I am convinced that in everlasting war we must find our ruin. A rapid review of our internal situation, and even a repetition of the name of our sister kingdom, and the catalogue of our fo-3reign dependencies, will too clearly establish that proposition. Look at the petitions upon your table, and read what they contain. Look at Ireland), at India, and

your possessions in the West Indies; and, having done so, ask yourselves whether a continuation of the war must not F bring the greatest calamities upon the

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the coalitions formed against him, and led | How much more formidable have Th’ unlucky have their hours, and those they power of the continent! before The lucky have their moments, those they use, his armies in contact with those a

That is the solution of this great mystery tertained by yourselves, or by the sary to the salvation of the country. I obtained? The Hölumes of treaties, with

engaged against him. What could be jointly, that France might have be
more absurd, not to go back to former sisted by a combination of those
periods, than the last coalition excited by and indeed a doubt might have be
England against France? To enter into | tertained in the mind of the French
the detail of all the Papers, which were
imprudently thrown upon the table of the military skill, and with such an en

house of commons,* at the time lord Mul- | the French armies, and the armies reign dependencies, will too clearly estil you can have security, that the peace

of state, would not be possible at this time; could make head against the other
but I would refer the house, and the pub- of the continent.
lic, to a review of them, for the proof of shewn him, that Austria and Russia
what I assert. Austria was totally unpre- | bined, are no match for him; yo

pared. She was a power at that time as ther a continuation of the war must not peace would be permanent and secure, or bring the greatest calamities upon the as much so as at any other period with $39] PARL. DEBATES, FEB. 29, 1808.--Mr. Whitbread's Motion relative to (840 841) PARL. DEBATES, FEB. 29, 1808.--the Mediation of Russia and no hesitation in saying, that I had much country, unless you can effect a firm and any other government. The right hon. great, if not greater, than rather the seals of lhe foreign office were general conviction that it is the am. gent. in the Declaration which I take to volution of France. Her do in the hands of lord Hawkesbury, than in bition and injustice of France alone, be his production, has described in glow- more concentrated, her popu! those of their present possessor. In lord which prevents the accomplishment of ing terms, the present state of the French her spirit, even under the m Hawkesbury's correspondence, there ap- peace. But it is necessary that a pegs. power; he has asserted, and most truly, verses, had never been brol pears to be a frankness, a simplicity, and ciation very different from any of the pre that kingdoms are prostrate at her feet, you would not have dragged a temper which are totally wanting in the ceding ones, should be entered into

, for and that the population of nations is ranged a time when she was conscio correspondence of the right hon. gent

, and the purpose for ascertaining that fact under her banners. Formidable indeed / ability to stir, she might have which are very ill compensated by the Sir, I believe there are many who hare is the power so described, but what has and, at some future period h smartness and satire so conspicuous in his such a horror of peace with France that laid kings prostrate at her feet, and what to France a most formidable a dispatches. If therefore, the administra- they would be inclined to vote with me has ranged ihe population of nations under resistance. Forced by your i tion must needs consist of the same com- upon the third proposition

, which I shall her banner? the infatuated policy of Eng- ran upon her ruin ; and altho ponent parts, I could wish, for the advan- submit to the consideration of the house, land, during the last fifteen years. Is been suffered to remain á g tage of the country, that these two persons upon the expediency of making a direct there any hope then by a perseverance in still, much more time will be re should change situations. But, sir, how- overturé for negociation with France

, il the same policy, that this power can be in fore she can again make head ever material it may be to review the con- they could be convinced that that over the smallest degree diminished? Let us continent. Russia was an unbro duct of ministers, and for the house to es- ture would terminate unsuccessfuly, after not deceive ourselves, nor stand aghast as but it was madness to call her press its opinion upon that conduct, what the example of Mr. Dundas, who told the if something preternatural had been effect- moment that you did ; and the is past is of much less importance tban house of commons, that in the failure of ed! there is no miracle in all this, it is of the last coalition was one of what is to come; and it remains to be the negociation at Lisle and Paris, the simply the consequence of one man, of ex of acts of impolicy, or rather th. considered what course we ought now to country had had two great escapes. Such traordinary talents, taking advantage of surd of all those impolitic acts pursue. What is past is lamentable, but is the hatred of some towards France, the folly and the blunders of the rest of England has been so long guilty. irremediable; what is to come requires such the infatuation of others, and such mankind. We talk of the machinations, of fatal consequence, not oniy as the utmost efforts of human wisdom to the controul of interest

, as I fear, ofer the artifices, and the intrigues of Buona- to the defeat and disgrace of the turn to the best account. If I shall have many, that for these different reasons des parte : they all resolve themselves into armies, but as it has given to t persuaded the house, or any considerable siring a prolongation of the war

, they four great battles, Marengo, Austerlitz, emperor a proof of his power, proportion of it, that at no period the ex- would wish to throw the whole blame upok Jena, and Friedland. These are the ma- gayed against those armies. periment of negociation has been carried France, and they would be glad to enter chinations by which he got the continent

talk of artifice and deceit, let us to the utmost ; and that in the two last into a mock negociation for that purpose instances, it was not the perverseness of such certainly is not iny view of the sun for him to fight those battles; you com

You made it necessary that the foundation of the hop

coalition, was the deceit practi France, but the folly of England, which ject. I wish to enter into a negociation bined the world against him, he has con

the French emperor; that that dec prevented our entering into negociation, not only for the purpose of ascertaining the quered the world combined, and he has the period at which you expecte shall have effected a great deal , because sincerity of France, but in the bope, ny

Wetection, was successful. Sir, we I shall have persuaded the house, or such even in the expectation of being able to talk again at other times, of the fortune of drank the cup of experience to t persons in it upon whom my arguments procure peace, upon honourable and equ. Buonaparte, as if there were some good and I think the most infatuated e may have made any impression, that they table terms. Sir, it has been said by some genius attendant upon him, which led him

in politics can no longer look to ought not to cast away all hope of peace, that a peace of security would contenu to the accomplishment of his objects, and tinent for any hope of curtailin and that it is not necessary to stifle all de them; and that for the present all idea of 33 if an evil genius at all times attended less of destroying,

power

of sire of it. My opinion is now what it has our honour must be out of the question. been from the commencement of the first am of a very different opinion. I certain

.
them to defeat and to disgrace: Sir,

dered the French emperor, by revolutionary war: peace has been all would not consent to any peace, in which along essential to the interests

, it is now the honour of the country was not consulta more than at any preceding period neces- ed. As to security, when can it ever be deny the insane proposition, that peace is which our libraries are loaded, show that

as it respects Buonaparte and the

who had not tried it, either separat

powers more dangerous than war. I will not as- peace has seldom been maintained be sert that, with peace we can insure safety

, tween contracting parties, whenever it be but I am convinced that in everlasting came the'interests of either the one or e war we must find our ruin

. A rapid re other power to break the contract. Will view of our internal situation, and even a the power of France, so enormous repetition of the name of our sister now confessedly is, when can you say that kingdom, and the catalogue of our fo- you are secure in peace? If you want une titions upon your table, and read

what / ing any given period, you must abandon they contain. Look at Ireland, at India, | all hopes of peace; but I should enter into and your possessions in the West Indies; negociation, expecting that it would hele and, having done so, ask yourselves the minute in peace; and hoping that such

into his power:

combined the world against you.

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shewn him that Russia and Prussia bined are no match for him, and it no matter of speculation, but a thing

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you have forced him to put to the proof, that he is superior to every, and to all the armies of the continent. You are now 1 alone : and how are your individual inte 1 rests to be consulted? When I say alone, i I do not forget that you have an alliance with Sweden; but that alliance is a weight upon you, rather than any assistance to t you. I say then, that you are alone in the war; and how are your individual interests to be consulted, but by peace? Upon 1 what appears to me to be the folly of commercial warfare, I have touched in the earlier part of my speech.-It has often 1 been said, and with great truth as it applies to this country, that we ought to be extremely thankful to Providence, that we are unacquainted with the actual horrors of war: that this country has not been its theatre, at least for a long period ; and that whilst desolation is spread over the plains of the continent, we are in all the F. enjoyment of profound peace. But although to us this is a blessing, I much a question whether it is not the reverse of a blessing to all the rest of mankind; fort there is a wide difference between giving it large sums of money, the which in truth does not deprive the majority of those who a give them, of any even of the comforts of I life, much less of its necessaries, and being p subject to those calamities which are inevitable where the contest is actually car

is ried on. If the horrors of war were but once tasted amongst us, I do not think that t the indisposition to peace would be so strong as it has hitherto been, and as I per- I haps fear it may even now be.- If we con h tinue the contest, it may come nearer home.—Ireland may be the theatre of war, nay it is not out of the reach of possibility, that the theatre of war may

be

y transferred to England herself. God avert it! I am not one of those who ever gave way to the expression of sentiments which those who uttered them I am sure never seriously entertained: I never said, speedy meeting to Buonaparte upon our t own shores !" God grant that he may never attain these shores! but if the war is to be interminable, that is one of the scenes which must eventually be acted.Sir, I will here notice one of the grounds of alarm which I have heard expressed on the subject of peace, arising out of the h extension of the French empire, which we witnessed during the short interval of the peace of Amiens. I would ask gentlemen ki to review the comparative progress of the ir power of France during war, and during a

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power of France during war, and during a fair opportunity can be found, upana

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exciting them to a coalition, the object ville wrote a letter, most judici of which was to overwhelm and to destroy pressed, to the minister of forei

shewn that you have treated the two offers no doubt was entertained then, i own shores !" God grant that he may / and is not our critical situation with regard

there any hope that he will again hazard and consistent with his own di

of mediation of Austria and Russia, is now, that it was wise, politic, ho never attain these shores! but if the war to her, another reason why you should

any indirect attempt? Is it reasonable to well as with that of the country is to be interminable, that is one of the make an attempt to open a negociation ?

lit? and even if he were inclined to such a line of conduct as ought to scenes which must eventually be acted.- even for the sake of your ally, Sweden

do it, what ministers have you at your sued at this moment. The ques Sir, I will here notice one of the grounds should you not attempt to negociate for

court, or what ministers has he at his, occurs, what difficulties would the subject of peace, arising out of the her ruin, in spite of all the assistance she

then, what is there left but a direct offer of you say is purely defensive ; the

any such attempt? I repeat the question has very much smoothed them. extension of the French empire, which we may receive from England. - To all this it witnessed during the short interval of the may perhaps be shortly answered by the peace of Amiens. I would ask gentlemen king's ministers, we are desirous of opelle to review the comparative progress of the ing a negociation with France, wheneret

tary of state, that in a direct proposition of negociation? I have no doubt si

from this country, there can be nothing and eagerly too. It is quite un 845] PARL. DEBATES, F£e. 29, 1805.- Mr. Whitbread's Motion relative to 184 845] PARL. DEBATES, Feb. 29, 1808.--the Mediation of Russia and Aus you bave forced him to put to the proof, peace; we shall find that war has no footing of equality, and in a manner ho- | degrading. In the speech I h ihat be is superior to every, and to all the stopped but materially accelerated that nourable to the country.

Sir, the minis- quoted, he distinctly says, armies of the continent. You are now progress; there are no means in war to ters are constantly talking about their dis- time when negociation is de alone : and how are your individual inte- prevent its further progression. The French position to peace, but let us look a little cannot conceive that

any

delid Tests to be consulted? When I say alone, power is more progressive during war than for what they are waiting: first of all, for which party should make th I do not forget that you have an alliance during peace. But during peace the power an impartial mediator. Why, Sir, whether ought to stand in the way.' with Sweden; but that alliance is a weight of England and her allies would be upou partial or impartial, there is no mediator with this theory, and I recomm upon you, rather than any assistance to the recovery. But what effect may the now left upon the face of the earth.—Next, the practice of it. In confirm you.—1 say then, that you are alone in continuance of the war produce upon our till France shall send a proper basis, and propriety, I refer him to a perso tae war; and how are your individual inte external possessions? Do not ministers propose an unobjectionable spot for the diplomatic shool he was bred, rests to be consulted, but by peace? Upon know that a most formidable attack upon purpose of treating :

has always professed a great what appears to me to be the folly of our Indian empire is in the contemplation Rusticus expectat dum defluat amnis. and for whom I entertain the commercial warfare, I have touched in the of France? Do they not know that the What remains to be done ? nothing, but pect; I mean lord Grenville. earlier part of my speech.-It has often means for that attack are in preparation ? that this country should make an over- | period in which he held the offi been said, and with great truth as it applies That so soon after the peace of Tobit as ture to France, as direct as the French cupied by the right hon. gent. to this country, that we ought to be ex- the 12th of Aug. 1807, general Gardane emperor has ever made to you.

Is there positions were made from this tremely thankful to Providence, that we was at Constantinople, on his way to Per any humiliation in this proposition ? if France: all of them direct, and are usacquainted with the actual horrors sia, for the purpose of preparing for the there be, the French emperor has twice manly character which belor of war: that this country has not been its march of an army to India ? that since sufficiently humbled himself before you; noble lord. First

, when he o theatre, at least for a long period; and that period, men of science and military for twice he has made direct overtures Wickham to address Mr. Bar that whilst desolation is spread over the knowledge have been from time to time of negociation. Can there be any ex

was to ask directly of the Fren piains of the continent, we are in all the passing from France into Persia, with a pectation that he will repeat them? ment, whether they were inclin enjoyment of profound peace. But al- view to the same object? and do they not Recollect the abrupt and repulsive man- for peace? no mention of p though to us this is a blessing, I much also know that the thing itself is of much her in which he was received in 1800, basis, no delicacy or feeling of h question whether it is not the reverse of a more easy performance, thạn many when he made his first overture to the in being the first to court that blessing to all the rest of mankind ; for those achievements which the emperor of king, on his being invested with the chief then deemed desirable; it wa: there is a wide difference between giving the French has accomplished ? and can consulate of France ! recollect the deceit- honourable, and manly propo large sums of money, the which in truth they point out any means by which is the ful (I had almost said the treacherous) failed. On the second occasio does not deprive the majority of those who attack should be made, it can be repelled mode in which he was received the second tion was asked through the Danis give them, of any even of the comforts of Does not the continuance of the war then time, when on assuming the imperial dig- at Paris, who answered

the n liie, much less of its necessaries

, and being put to hazard the existence of our Indian nity, he again made a direct overture for that the then French governm subject to those calamities which are in empire ? does it not put to hazard the er. peace. You told him at that time, that not allow of any indirect comm evitable where the contest is actually car- istence of every English subject in India ried on. If the horrors of war were but Here then is another reason, why

, while

before you could give him any answer you Lord Grenville immediately wr

must consult your allies. You did consult French minister of foreign affairs once tasted amongst us, I do not think that there is yet time, we should attempt to be the indisposition to peace would be so gociate for peace

. What is the state of

your allies ; but not for the purpose of ciation was the consequence, wh

Bobtaining from them their consent to enter unfortunately. The third time strong as it has hitherto been, and as I per: Ireland ? the bare mention of Ireland bring into negociation, but for the purpose of any attempt at indirect means

, 1 haps fear it may even now be.--If we con- her situation home in a most terrific magtique the contest, it may come nearer ner to the bosom of every man; and does

It bome. -- Ireland may be the theatre of not the state of Ireland afford a reasa war , nay it is not out of the reach of pos- why you should attempt

, while there is

were so to reverse the character you draw sibility, that the theatre of war may be yet time, to negociate for peace : Julien

cessary now to go into an invest as to represent him one of the most

the merits of those negociatio transferred to England herself. God avert is your situation with regard to American

moderate and equitable of mankind), is

were discussed at the time, and i there any hope that he will again attempt

ions upon them are the same as t way to the expression of sentiments which wise

, upon the eve of a rupture with the to approach this country by direct overthose who uttered them I am sure never country? would not the addition of dames

tures? After the manner in which I have

then : but with regard to the c

lord Grenville, in the different seriously entertained: I never said, « a rica to the number of our enemies be of speedy meeting to Buonaparte upon our the greatest possible consequence to us of alarm which I have heard expressed on

on the

part

of England ?-Sir, of peace then is purely a que

of him,

expect

a perseverance in the contest must be to

negociation

terms. But would Franceaccede to

for my present purpose, to enter into any | bounds; he exacted from them more than argument upon the question of terms : human nature could endure. From that that is a different consideration, and for the moment there was a revulsion in the mind present is wholly out of my contemplation of the Dutch nation. Having done their All I want to ascertain is, whether peace be utmost to procure safety, by submission, possible or not, by which I always under and finding that it was not to be obtained, stand an honourable peace; and if I can their hearts were steeled against their opascertain that fact even in the negative, I pressor; they rallied under that mighty, shall have produced great advantage to genius, the prince of Orange, our great the country. A conviction of the want of deliverer William the IIId, who conducted moderation in the French emperor, and ofy them to victory and to glory. The injusthe impossibility of obtaining peace, would tice of Louis the XIVth formed the peunite all hearts, and all hands, in the de- destal, from which arose the exalted fame fence of the country. Every privation would of that illustrious monarch, which has be submitted to: the honour of the country spread over every region of the earth. and its salvation would be paramount to From the moment that the deputies of every feeling of individual distress. 1 Holland returned from the

presence of the should no longer be apprehensive of the French monarch, his projects were all power of France. She would have cre- baffled, and his army was ultimately comated against herself an invincible barrier; pelled to retire in disgrace. If then the and we, secure in the justice of our own French emperor should eventually conduct cause, should be invincible against all her himself in the manner which so many perefforts. Is it from any enthusiastic feeling sons are willing to attribute to him, but as that I am making this assertion ? is it the I think falsely, I am warranted in anticiresult of a sanguine mind, or introduced pating such consequences as followed from merely for the purpose of supporting my the same conduct on the part of Lewis the own argument? no, Sir, I rely upon XIVth.-It is evidently necessary, howhistorical example. What produced the ever, that we should conduct ourselves salvation of Holland in the seventeenth towards the chief of the French governcentury, but the injustice, the cruelty, ment with the same policy, that we would and the inordinate ambition of Louis use towards

any
other

person with whom the XIVth ? Let us look at that period we were about to negociate, or with whom of history, and we shall find that the we were negociating, either in a private or liberties of mankind were thought, by public station of life. It is not consistent those who then lived, to be in danger with the policy or the dignity of a great as imminent as we deem them to be in at nation, to approach another power, with a present. At the head of a vast military manifestation of feelings of disgust, of suse force, commanded by the greatest gene- picion, or personal antipathy. Such, neverals, and guided by the counsels of the theless, have been the manner and feelings wisest statesmen of the age, actuated by with which the emperor of France has alan ambition as immoderate, and cursed ways been approached on the part of Engwith a heart as unfeeling as ever was at land. There has been no period in which the tributed to any conqueror upon the face of conduct of England towards him has been the earth, Louis the XIVth, in conjunc- wise or conciliatory. There has been no tion with the prostitute administration of person employed, on the part of England, Charles II. attacked the liberties of Hol- who, in my opinion, has understood the land. There appeared to be no salvation character of the man. · At no time has he for the country. He had but to approach, been treated with the consideration due to and to overrun it with his armies. Such the situation which he occupies, and to the was the state of despondency and dejec- achievements which he has performed. I tion into which the inhabitants of the Low think that lord Whitworth, in the converCountries were sunk; such were the dis- sations which he held with him, previous tresses which the people felt, that a depus to the rupture of the peace of Amiens, tation was sent to the French king to re grossly misunderstood his character and quest that he would name the terms upon intentions. I think that at the period of which he would grant them peace; and the negociation of 1806, his character was they were ready to accept terms of greater again greatly misunderstood. Sir, I hope humiliation than had ever before been im- I shall not be misrepresented, as if I wished posed upon any independent power. But that'the ministers of England, should con

the arrogance of Louis the XIVch knew no duct themselves with adulation of servi

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