fully satisfied, that we had means consistent with the independence we and resources abundantly sufficient had sanctioned: it would be an undue to prosecute the contest, not only interference with the Irish legisla one year, but to the utmost extent ture, and might be regarded as a which the imagination of any man manifest breach of solemn compact. could suppose the enemy to pursue The agitation of the question would it. Our naval exploits, our brilliant be an impropriety in the house, and victories, and the advantages result- he would use no further arguments ing from them, were just reasons to prove it. But that which had for exultation. But what are we excited his astonishment in the earl told?-that we had only parried a of Moira's speech, was the cruelties danger! Could the house hear with said to be promoted by the British patience so low a statement of our military, at the instigation of out important successes? Whatever our government. It was, indeed, no situation was, be it more or less ex- arduous task to exonerate the forposed to difficulty and danger, it mer from any charges of inhumaniadmonishes us cordially to unite in ty. Bravery, clemency, and good the defence of our constitution. nature, were the characteristic feaFor the necessity of this concur- tures of the English disposition. rence, he appealed, not only to That there might be individual exEngland, but to every branch and ceptions, he pretended not to say; member of the British empire, whose but, if such excesses were perpeindividual interest and safety, as trated, were there no courts of jus well as that of the public, must de- tice, no laws, no magistrates, no pend on this co-operation. He was tribunals open to the complaints of far from being able to discern what the oppressed? Ireland had its jushould alienate the affections of Ire- ries as well as this country, and the land, or indispose her from this ge- same safe-guards were provided for neral union. He expressed his sur- the lives of the Irish as for Englishprise to hear this government ac- men. Indeed, if a system so rigor. cused of hostile dispositions towards ous as was described, had been purthe sister country, or eager to keep sued, it must naturally be resented up in it a system of coercion. He by a spirited and independent peoconfidently appealed to the house, ple. But what was the object for whether we had ever abandoned which these troops were sent over? measures of concession or concilia- To protect the great body of the tion? For the whole space of thirty people against conspiracy and assasyears his majesty's government had sination; to overawe and counterbeen distinguished by the same uni- act the machinations of a set of form tenderness of regard, by the men, who were actively plotting the ime adherence to the principles of destruction of their country, and fa mild system. Amongst the various vouring the designs of our most instances exhibited, of liberality and inveterate enemy. If against such kindness on the part of this country men they had been at times incited. towards Ireland, he adverted to the to acts of harshness and severity; if establishment of its parliament into they had been occasionally warmed an independent legislature, and a into a sense of indignation, which wide extension of its commercial broke out into insults and outrages, privileges: nor could we enter no one, who understood the heart Lato a discussion like the present, of man, would wonder. What was more more natural than that a large body of Englishmen should be enraged against the abettors of a conspiracy, to deliver up the country to the French invaders? That such a system did exist, had been proved? and that large sums had been distributed to hire assassins to murder those who were inimical to their traitorous plans; to intimidate all witnesses, who came to give evidence against them; and even to deter juries from giving a conscientious verdict. Were not the same terrors hung over the heads of the judges and magistrates, to scare them from the performance of their sacred duty? Was this a system to be viewed with the cool composure, and deliberate circumspection, of civil prudence? Impossible! But it was the cause which was to be lamented; and if it had instigated some spirited individuals to acts of cruelty, they were to be attributed to those men whose atrocious conduct and evil designs had provoked them. Keen, notwithstanding, must be the regret which such unwarrantable revenge had excited in every human bosom. The same sensations must be awakened upon this subject in the Irish: and here he could not withhold joining the tribute of praise paid by carl Moira to the present governor of Ireland. No public man, placed in so critical a situation as lord Camden, had ever displayed more exemplary moderation in the discharge of a painful duty. If severe measures had been adopted, the circumstances of the country had required it; and if any partial abuses existed, we had only to lament them. He could not, therefore, see what utility could be derived from the removal of a person whose conduct was thus commendable, and whose only care seemed to be a punctual execution of the laws. If any abuse attended the system, on which the government of Ireland had acted, the laws were open to grant redress, and inflict punishment. No imputation could justly be cast upon the British military, who had been sent to Ireland for the purpose of protection, and were paid by that country for defending their liberties. Now was it only the English military who acted on these lamentable occasions? The nobility and gentry of Ireland were actively employed in the same service; and to their spirited exertions would the Irish owe their laws, their properties, and their lives. Of the press, which was said to be abridged of all its freedom most unjustly, he held now in his hands a paper printed, the contents of which were too shocking to read: its avowed object was to point out innocent men, by name, to the poignard of assassins. It loaded his majesty with the most opprobrious epithets, and reviled the English nation with every term of contumely, affirming it to be the duty of every Irishman to wrest from the hand of English ruffians the property which those English ruffians had wrested from their ancestors. This was no ambiguous language; it developed their project of separating Great Britain and Ireland, an object which was suggested by France: and if this impious attempt should succeed, what would be the result, but that confusion, anarchy, and the public enemy, would rush in upon the country? Such was the situation in which an open conspiracy had reduced the sister kingdom; and how could it be meliorated but by a system of vigorous laws; nor could those laws be enforced without entrusting great power to those on whom we impose the arduous task ask of enforcing them. The queson was, would their lordships inerpose on the present occasion, and tell the parliament of Ireland, an! the Irish magistracy, that we were more careful of the interests and Lappiness of their people than they themselves were; and that the English military were not to obey the Irish laws, but the arbitrary instruc tions of the British parliament Earl Moira said, that no sentiment had fallen from him to that effect. He had not reprobated the troops in Ireland for obeying the law, but the conduct of the executive goverament, which was repugnant to the feelings of the Irish people, inCoasistent with the British character, and highly injurious to the real interests of both countries. He asked the noble secretary, whether he knew of any point,under the general relation of the two Countries to each other, in which ay peer of parliament had a clearer right to address them than himself on the present subject? and, if he were now to move an address this majesty to remove lord Camden, whether he was not competent to make, and the house to agree, to such a motion? He referred to a case which occurred in reign when no privileges of the parliament were supposed to en croach upon the prerogatives of the Crown-the reign of Charles the Ild. The case was that of the duke of Lauderdale. The parliament of Scotland was then independent of this country, and both stood precisely in the situation that Ireand now did respecting England; and yet the parliament here came to a vote, that the evil counsellors about the king was a grievance, and that the duke of Lauderdale was not fit to be trusted in any office or place of trust, whilst he was in 1798. Scotland: which vote was doubtless intended to have been followed by an impeachment, which did not take place, owing to the dissolution of parliament which soon followed. But this illustrated the principle, and established the right of a member of a British parliament bringing forth a motion to advise his majesty to remove any of his ministers in such part of his dominions as were possessed of legislative bodies of its own. If, therefore, from motives of respect to the high station and personal character of lord Camden, he forebore agitating the question, it was not because he was not entitled so to do, if there existed a necessity for so doing. Lord Grenville, he said, had only taken notice of partial points and incidental abuses. He had stated facts: a combination, he would admit, was formed in Íreland, and a most powerful alarming combina tion; but coercion was not the means of dissolving it. But had not the course of conduct adopted by the British legislature for these thirty years past been a uniform series of conciliatory measures? to which he replied, it did not become the secretary of state to lay much stress on the British legisla ture towards Ireland, while, by his. own admission, it exercised an authority so unwarrantable, that the British legislature fifteen years since, on a principle of justice, thought fit to renounce it altogether. There existed a conspiracy of united Irishmen; and many persons who had joined that body had committed acts culpable in the extreme; but he did not believe the cause assigned just now was the real one: it was not originally with the design of overturning the constitution that these Irishmen united ; it was with the view of a parlia K mentary mentary reform; nor could they be censured for it, when the house of commons itself had come to a resolution for that purpose. He was far from approving the outrages alleged, and some of which he did not doubt they had committed; but the odious detestable practice of assassinations did not arise from any settled plan to overturn government, but from private malice and revenge, the effect of personal disputes. The state of Ireland was most deplorable; it was too pressing to admit delay; and what would be the consequence if an army was to land under the present system of coercion ? Destruction-which would extend to Britain. There could be no reliance placed upon the people unless they had hopes of conciliation he again most strongly recommended it. He stood there not merely as a peer of parliament, not as a member of a judicial assembly, but in the capacity of an hereditary counsellor of the crown. He offered this advice to his majesty in that house, he offered it to their lordships, and he offered it to the country, conscious of having performed an important duty in these arduous times. The lord chancellor rose to rectify an expression, he said, of his noble friend, who had stated that it was a point of form for the parliament of Great Britain to abstain from any interference with the independent legislature of Ireland: on the contrary, it was not merely the form, but the essence of pub lic faith and justice: it was matter of fact, that Ireland was as competent by law to make laws, superintend the administration of justice, enact any measure for its internal regulation, in like manner as Great Britain ever had done formerly, or did, at the present moment, for this country; and the more so, because there the parliament had an unappealable jurisdiction, which there was no power in this kingdom to alter or vary. The case of the duke of Lauderdale was not applicable, for though he was a member of the executive government, it was not on any action in his official capacity that the vote to address his majesty to remove him was founded. It was because he was one of the cabal (as the famous administration of that period, 1673, was then called), not for his conduct in Scotland, that the duke of Lauderdale fell under the animadversion of parliament: there was no attempt of the English to interfere with the Scotch parliament. It was too true, that many individuals have been assassinated in Ireland, and many more marked out for assassination: this, though lord Moira thought it arose from malice and revenge, was to him a proof that there existed a strong conspiracy against all whose duty it was to preserve order. He was called upon (he said) to bear this testimony, as also of the printed paper before mentioned; by which it was too evident that a number of individuals were doomed to be the victims of destruction in future. As to the regulation of putting out the lights, which had been con sidered as a badge of slavery, it de pended on circumstances whether it was so or not: in the present instance, it was a humane as well as a prudent regulation. If there was good reason to suspect that there were dangerous conspiracies carrying on in the houses in ques tion, by enforcing the extinction of fire and candle, the inhabitants were prevented from incurring the guilt, and rescued from the punish ment of nefarious practices: he knew knew nothing of its being improperly enforced; it was a measure suggested to the parliament of Ireland; they had considered and determined on it; for us, it was useless to cavil at it, as there was no power in this country to put an end to that regulation: it was par ticularly unfit for the discussion of the house, as their lordships had no authentic information of the grievances of Ireland in the first place; no power to redress them, if existing, in the second; they could not pass an opinion on them regularly, nor attempt to act, without subverting law, and counteracting authority. But arms had been demanded, when they only were retained for self-defence. This might be a fact, and justified by the same secessity. Times of imminent danger required vigorous exertions: but was this any proof that Ireland was not governed by law? Those who best knew the officers of the courts of law there would attest, that nothing need be feared for want of the due administration of justice in that country. It was from misinformation, or too hasty zeal, that insinuations were thrown upon the Irish parliament by the noble rd, as if they would not take care of the welfare and the interests of the people of that country. For himself, he could not help expressing a hope, that in future a le reflection would take place before any observations were made public which might irritate the ads of men, but which, resting on bare assertion, however respectable, could lead to no conclutons but errors. Earl Moira said, that he suspected the paper alluded to only be an invention, to justify the easures adopted and complained 01 in Ireland. No printer of a newspaper could have gained it from an authentic source; for no man concerned in a conspiracy for assassination would communicate his own criminal intention, or that of his colleagues. It was not by a system of terror that assassination was to be prevented: if you wish to prevent it (continued his lordship), awaken them to the sense of its baseness: by stating to them only that it is cruel, you produce no good, as they are actuated by passions which have been worked up into fury, they cannot be deterred by any thing you can say of cruelty. Give them an elevated idea of their own condition; teach them to feel the dignity of human nature undebased by guilt, and unstained by the foulest, as it is the meanest of crimes, assassination; and this can only be done by convincing them that they live under a just and equitable govern ment. Lord Grenville protested that he did not take his information from any newspaper, but from a printed hand-bill, which bore at its head a description of a number of persons, who were known as witnesses, informers, and spies, and were to be considered as proper objects for death-the inference was, every person concerned in bringing the united Irishmen to justice was to be assassinated. He trusted that he knew too much of the disposition of men belonging to public assemblies to attribute to them all the same motives and the same views; but the object of most of the acting and leading members of the united Irishmen was to overthrow the government of that country, and render it a prevince to France. The question of adjournment was then put and carried. After this debate no direct motion was |