as to what proposals we shall have to | ward to say that by our instructions and make. by our directions all this expenditure THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON: has been incurred? How is it possible There is one point in the observations of that the House should turn round and the Chancellor of the Exchequer which say we decline to pay? We have been I think ought not to be left altogether fulfilling one of our most important without remark. I think that the Chan- functions. To this House is confided, cellor of the Exchequer had some in- no doubt, the guardianship of our justice done to him at an earlier period Indian subjects to a very great extent; of the evening, inasmuch as the right but I think its primary duty is to guard hon. Gentleman has now given us some the interests of the British taxpayer. information as to what are the actual Under the circumstances in which we intentions of the Government. It ap- have been debating this question, it has pears that Her Majesty's Government been impossible to enter into it at intend the first charge of the war to length; but I am anxious that the probe defrayed by the Indian Govern- position of the Chancellor of the Exchement; and their further intention is that quer should not pass without a protest; according to the amount of resistance, and I am of opinion that when we meet or, in any case, according to the nature again, this question will be more or object which they desire to gain seriously considered than the Governby the war, they will come forward ment think it should be at the present and ask this House to grant a sub-moment. sidy in aid of the Indian Revenues. MR. JACOB BRIGHT said, he would This appears to me to be a new and not detain the House more than two altogether unprecedented view of the minutes while he alluded to a matter subject. We have in former times fre- which he had hoped would be mentioned quently conducted wars by means of by the hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. subsidies to foreign Powers; but I am Hardcastle), who had been more fortunot aware that we have ever subsidized nate than himself in getting a place in one of our own Dependencies to conduct the debate. A great deal had been said a war for us. There is this difference, I in the course of the debate about taking believe that when a foreign Power has a surplus which ought to be devoted to been subsidized to carry on a war in our the unfortunate people of India. He behalf, there has been a distinct under-wished to remind the Government that standing and distinct stipulations as to there were many poor people in this the amount to be paid and the amount of country who had some interest in that assistance to be rendered. In this case, surplus. Large deputations had come however, everything remains vague. up from the North of England, from It is in the power of the Government time to time, to ask for the removal of at home to issue such orders as they the cotton duties of India; and a may think fit to the Indian Govern- Minister of the Crown had more than ment as regards the prosecution of the once promised those deputations that as war; and when the work has been per- soon as there should be a surplus it formed, they can come down to the House should be devoted to the removal of and ask us to vote money in order to re- those duties. The Minister who made imburse the taxpayers of India for the those promises was Lord Salisbury; and services rendered. In this case, what it would be rather a curious coincidence becomes of the power of this House to if, on looking up the dates, it should be control questions of peace and war; and discovered that at the moment when he what becomes of the power of this House was making those promises to the Lancato protect the purse of the British shire people he was reversing the policy nation? If Her Majesty's Government, of peace in India, and making it imposthrough the agency of the Indian Go-sible to apply the surplus to any such vernment, conducts the war, the control purpose. Representing a part of Lanof Parliament over the expenditure en-cashire, and knowing the condition in tirely vanishes. And as to the guardianship of the resources of the taxpayers, what becomes of that when, after the Indian Government has done the work, the Government comes for which Lancashire was at the present moment, he felt it his duty to say a word on this subject. The mills were being closed or working short time, and a great number of poor people would look with surprise and indignation on this unfor- | Hill, A. S. tunate mode of disposing of the Indian surplus. Question put. Holford, J. P. G. Hood, Capt. hn. A. W. A. N. The House divided:-Ayes 235; Noes Hope, A. J. B. B. 125 Majority 110. Hubbard, E. Hubbard, rt. hon. J. Jervis, Col. H. J. W. Kennard, Col. E. H. Macartney, J. W. E. Parker, Lt.-Col. W. Peek, Sir H. Pell, A. Sandon, Viscount Scott, Lord H. Selwin Ibbetson, Sir Shute, General C. C. Smith, S. G. Spinks, Serjeant F. L. Storer, G. Swanston, A. Taylor, rt. hn. Col. T.E. Watson, rt. hon. W. TELLERS. Dyke, Sir W. H. Winn, R. NOES. Balfour, Sir G. Barclay, A. C. Bass, A. Bass, H. Beaumont, Colonel F. Kensington, Lord Bristowe, S. B. Brogden, A. Lawson, Sir W. Brown, J. C. Leatham, E. A. Burt, T. Leeman, G. Cameron, C. Campbell, Lord C. Campbell, Sir G. H. annerman, Kingscote, Col. R. N. F. Report of the Committee on that Department, with a Rejoinder on the part of the Committee [by Command]; to lie upon the Table. Leith, J. F. Macduff, Viscount M'Arthur, A. Maitland, J. Middleton, Sir A. E. Milbank, F. A. Monk, C. J. Chadwick, D. Chamberlain, J. Cole, H. T. Colman, J. J. Courtauld, G. Courtney, L. H. O'Gorman, P. Cowan, J. O'Reilly, M. Palmer, G. Delahunty, J. Parker, C. S. Dilke, Sir C. W. Philips, R. N. Dillwyn, L. L. Earp, T. Edge, S. R. Playfair, rt. hon. L. Power, J. O'C. Ramsay, J. Rathbone, W. Richard, H. Roberts, J. Rylands, P. Samuda, J. D'A. Samuelson, B. Samuelson, H. Sheil, E. Sheridan, H. B. Simon, Serjeant J. Smyth, P. J. Goschen, rt. hon. G. J. Stacpoole, W. Hartington, Marq. of Gordon, Sir A. Gourley, E. T. Grant, A. Gray, E. D. Grey, Earl de Harcourt, Sir W. V. Havelock, Sir H. Hayter, A. D. Herschell, F. Stansfeld, rt. hon. J. Waterlow, Sir S. H. TELLERS. Laing, S. Resolved, That, Her Majesty having directed a Military expedition of Her Forces charged upon Indian Revenues to be despatched against the Ameer of Afghanistan, this House consents that the Revenues of India shall be applied to defray the expenses of the Military operations which may be carried on beyond the external Frontiers of Her Majesty's Indian possessions. MILITIA (TRAINING ESTABLISHMENT). Return presented,-for each Regiment showing the number present, absent, and wanting to complete the training for 1878 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table. FACTORY AND WORKSHOP ACT, 1878. Copy presented,-of Orders made by the Secretary of State granting special exceptions by Act]; to lie upon the Table. ARMY (STAFF COLLEGE). Address for "Returns showing the number of Officers of Royal Artillery and Royal Engineers who have competed at each examination for admission to the Staff College, Sandhurst, since its formation; the number on each occasion who would have gained admission but for the limitation rules, and their places on the list; the number of and places obtained by those who did gain admission; the number of and places. obtained at the final examination by those who passed out; the number who passed the final examination without going through the College; and the rules as to limitation of numbers in force at different periods: " And, numerical and nominal list of those who passed through the College, or passed the final examination, who have been employed on the Staff of the Army, and the appointments they have held, specifying in the numerical list the totals of those who have been employed on the General Staff, and of those who have held Regimental Staff appointments; appointments on the Staff in India not to be included in this Return."-(Colonel Arbuthnot.) EGYPT (DAIRA LANDS). Address for "any Papers showing the agreement between this Country and the Khedive of Egypt which en- | of the Magistrates of Middlesex and abled the Marquis of Salisbury, in his Westminster, or of the City of London, Letter to Lord Lyons of 24th October or of the county of Surrey, and the 1878 (Papers, Egypt, No. 2, 1878), to Home Office, relative to the working of state that the person nominated by Her the new Prison Rules and the control of Majesty's Government as one of the the Magistrates."—(Mr. Mitchell Henry.) Commissioners of the Daira Lands shall not be divested of his functions without their previous consent."-(Mr. Samuelson.) RAILWAYS (IRELAND). Return ordered, "of all Railway Companies in Ireland which have now or have ever had guarantees on the county rates; giving in each case the date of the Act authorising the guarantee; the date of the opening of the Line; the amount of authorised capital; amount of guaranteed capital; rate of interest guaranteed; character of guaranteed capital, whether a first charge on the net receipts or not; amount paid out of rates to the Company on account of the guarantee; and the number of years, if any, in which the net receipts from the Line were sufficient to dispense with a call on the rates."—(The O'Conor Don.) EAST INDIAN ARMY. Address for "Return showing rank and names of the British Officers serving with each regiment of Native Cavalry and Infantry employed in or moved for the Afghan Campaign of 1878 on the 1st day of September 1878, either in the advanced columns or in their support, with names of the Officers subsequently attached to each, and the casualties amongst them, made up to the 31st day of December 1878."(Sir Henry Havelock.) EAST INDIAN ARMY (NATIVE TROOPS). Address for "Return showing Annual Cost of the Pay and Allowances of all Officers in the East Indian Army (Native Troops) showing each Presidency separately."—(Sir Henry Havelock.) JOHN NOLAN. Address for "Copy of Depositions taken before the Coroner at the Inquest on the body of John Nolan."-Mr. Mitchell Henry.) PRISON RULES. Address for "Copy of Correspondence CHURCH OF SCOTLAND. Address for "Returns with regard to the Established Church of Scotland, giving in separate columns the number of Male and the number of Female Communicants in each parish in Scotland for the year 1878 included in the Roll prepared by the Kirk Session, in conformity with the Regulations of the General Assembly; and stating the date. of the Minute of the Kirk Session sanctioning the Roll as last purged of persons disqualified by removal or otherwise, and finally adjusted: " "Of the number of Adherents, not being Communicants, and not under 21 years of age, admitted on application to the Roll of the Congregation, under the General Assembly's Regulations of the 3rd day of June 1878, in those parishes in which Ministers have been elected and appointed under the provisions of Church Patronage Act of 1874:" "And, of the Population of each parish according to the Census of 1871, and a summary of the results (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 239, of Session 1874)."-(Mr. McLaren.) AFGHANISTAN (No. 3). Copy presented, -of Further Correspondence respecting the proceedings of the International Commission sent to the Mount Rhodope District [by Command]; to lie upon the Table. House adjourned at a quarter before HOUSE OF LORDS, Thursday, 13th February, 1879. thought, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, that it would be desirable that I should, upon this occasion, take the opportunity of indicating the measures which, under ordinary circumstances, would have been recommended to your notice in the Speech from the Throne at the opening of the present MINUTES.]-PUBLIC BILL-First Reading Session. But, my Lords, before doing Cathedral Statutes* (4). MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. THE EARL OF BEACONSFIELD: My Lords, the circumstances under which Parliament was called together, at the end of last year, rendered it impossible that your Lordships' attention should be directed, in the Speech from the Throne, to any other subject than that which was the occasion of our having been so unexpectedly assembled. It would not have been prudent-I may say it would not have been possible -at that period to have indicated the measures which Her Majesty's Government might have thought it their duty to introduce to the consideration of Parliament. Nevertheless, everyone must feel the inconvenience that would follow from the omission of that Constitutional custom which makes it the duty of the Government, at the commencement of the Session, to communicate generally to the two Houses the character of the measures which they are about to introduce, and the general course of Business. I have therefore VOL. CCXLIII. [THIRD SERIES.] so, it may not be considered intrusive if I make a few remarks on the At this general situation of affairs. moment, the thoughts and feelings of the country are engrossed by the terrible news just received from South Africa. My Lords, it is not wise either to depreciate the importance of such an event or to exaggerate it. It is a military disaster-a terrible military disasterbut I think we may say it is no more. It is not a military defeat arising from the failing energies or resources of the country. It is from accidental and, at circumstances that the calamity has this moment, not clearly understood arisen. I have no information to give your Lordships which is not in your Possession by the usual means of indesirable that no one should hazard an telligence; and it would, I think, be opinion as to the causes of the disaster until we receive those official and authentic accounts which are, of course, now on their way. Nothing, indeed, at this moment, is certain respecting this sad occurrence except the valour of our troops. They have shown, in this difficulty-as they have ever shown-the utmost devotion and bravery. Those who have fallen will be remembered, and will be mourned; but we must not forget the exhibition of heroic valour by those who have been spared. At this moment, I am sure, the recollection of those 80 men, who, for 12 hours in a forlorn hope, kept at bay 4,000 of the enemy, and ultimately repulsed them, will prove that the stamina and valour of the English soldiery have not diminished. All I will now say, on the part of the Government, is that we shall avail ourselves of every possible means to place before your Lordships all the information that reaches us. My noble Friend the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies has given Notice that in a few days--I am in hopes on Saturday next, but certainly on Monday-you will have the Papers which will complete the history of these events. 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