have taken. There may be people who | faces, as the case may be. The noble will say "Perish India," and would Earl who moved the Address appeared rather sacrifice their own country than to me to hit a very serious blot, which sacrifice their particular views as to our had struck me on reading the Queen's relations with the Ameer; but I believe Speech. We all know the warm and the people who are of that way of active sympathy which Her Majesty thinking are very few and I am sure evinces when any calamity happens to that your Lordships and the bulk of the any class, or even to individuals, among people of England will tolerate no inter- her subjects; and I do think it is someference with our Empire, but will what strange that Her Majesty's Misacrifice blood and treasure to maintain nisters should entirely omit to insert a it, and will be prepared to say "Eng-single word of sympathy on the part of land's friends are our friends, and England's enemies are our enemies." I beg to second the Address. [See p. 17.]

Her Majesty with the great distress which indubitably exists among the trading, the manufacturing, and the EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, it agricultural classes of this country. The has been my lot not unfrequently during noble Earl spoke with great feeling, the existence of the present Government, as becomes his great knowledge of this on the occasion of the opening of Par- subject; and I am happy to agree with liament, to express the great pleasure I him in the hopes of improvement which have felt at the ability with which the he expressed as to the future. No doubt Address to Her Majesty in answer to the depression has arisen mainly from Her Majesty's Most Gracious Speech causes with which Her Majesty's Gohave been moved and seconded in this vernment have nothing to do. First, House by young Peers. The noble Lord there was the inflation of a few years who has just seconded the Address (Lord ago, against the dangers of which the Inchiquin) we have often had the plea- Leader of the late Government so elosure of hearing before; and with regard quently warned the public. Then there to my noble Friend who moved it, he is was the commercial disturbance caused an old soldier in debate whom we gladly by the Russo-Turkish War. I do not welcome, though coming from another re- know how far it can be said that Her giment. I hope that neither of my noble Majesty's Government had nothing to Friends, nor any of your Lordships, will do with that, for the Prime Minister think I am wanting in courtesy to told us last year that if the Government those noble Lords, or that I do not con- had taken a course they did not take that sider the topics with which they have war might have been prevented, while dealt of the greatest importance and others think there was a different course gravity, if I do not follow them in detail which might have had the same effect. in the statements they have made, and Her Majesty's Government have nothing which I shall avoid doing for the reasons to do with bad harvests, nor with the I shall shortly give. I observe, though folly of the enormous loans to insolvent I do not complain of it, that neither of States, enabling them for a short period the noble Lords has followed the usual to buy the produce of our labour. My practice of adverting to each of the points firm belief at this moment is that these mentioned in the Speech from the causes are diminished, if not removed, Throne. With regard to home matters and that the one thing wanted is confi there is, indeed, very little to be said-dence. With confidence there would be for there are only two points in it. The a return of gradually increasing prosfirst is the reference to the inevitable, perity; but how far Her Majesty's Goand, I am afraid, the annually increasing vernment, by their acts, are contributing Estimates; and there is also an an- to restore that confidence it is not for me nouncement of certain anonymous Bills to say. It is quite clear that a Governto be introduced into Parliament after a ment which describes every diplomatic suitable Recess. I own that after the move as a diplomatic triumph; which experience I have had of the announce- announces with perfect truth-that ment of Bills in Queen's Speeches in this country is able from year to year the last two years and the results, I am to sustain the strains of war without able to wait with indifference till Feb- being exhausted; which startles the ruary next to know the names of the country with great responsibilities for new friends or the old friends with new which it is utterly unprepared, even if

it follows a policy that may be wise- no acquisition; and the late Foreign may be popular-it does not contribute Secretary (the Earl of Derby) said that to bring about the sort of confidence which the strength of this country consisted is essential to the prosperity of trade and in this-that we feared nobody and manufactures. I do not complain of wanted nothing. It appeared to me to the Speech being short; but there are be a proud and true assertion. I am some very singular omissions to which I afraid that these former truths can must allude. While a most serious war hardly now be maintained. I rather is raging in our dominion of South gather that the acquisition of Cyprus, Africa, and we are despatching troops even apart from the mode in which it thither, it does seem to me that in a was made, is not now considered of such communication from Her Majesty to high value by those who made it as it Her Parliament there should be some was at first. I judge this from the reference to the state of affairs in that different manner in which they defend important Colony. There is, indeed, an it. One Minister states that it is to be allusion to the Treaty of Berlin-a very considered a model school of good gosatisfactory allusion it is; and I am vernment for the Turks. I very much ready to admit with great pleasure doubt whether many Pashas will be that if Her Majesty's Government, in sent to Cyprus to study our administraconcert with the other European Powers, tion more than they have been sent to have, by judicious diplomatic measures, Malta, to England, or to the Ionian contributed in any degree to induce Islands. The Prime Minister has Russia and Turkey to execute all their spoken of Cyprus as "a place of arms;" engagements under that Treaty, not but before it becomes so I am afraid excluding any, they will have done a many improvements will have to be very great and important work. I am carried out and much expense incurred. very glad, indeed, Her Majesty's Go- It is, indeed, a little out of the way; but o vernment are able to inform us that by the time it is fortified, harbours prothey think those two countries will vided, and the pestilential climate renexecute the Treaty, and that it will work dered salubrious, I trust it may turn out to satisfactorily, though of this I require be of some use. But then it seems there is more information to be convinced. But some further consolation in store for us. there is another matter which affects A right rev. Prelate (the Bishop of Glouthis country much more vitally than the cester) has spoken of our possession of Treaty of Berlin, and that is the Anglo- Cyprus as a providential dispensation Turkish Convention; we are not quite that would promote the spread of the sure how that is being carried out. Christian religion. Nobody would be That came upon us all with a surprise. more delighted than I should be if such As the result of that Convention we an object could be attained; but I confound ourselves in possession of Cyprus, fess I do not quite understand how that and loaded with immense responsi- brilliant and gallant soldier Sir Garnet bilities-the government of Asia Minor Wolseley, administering Mahommedan and the Protectorate of Turkey. My law in that Island, will promote in any Lords, we who dared last year to criti- very sensible degree the advancement of cize the value of Cyprus were stigma- the Christian religion. I hope the Gotized as unpatriotic. I admit that many vernment will succeed in their endeavours people thought that it was a great to introduce better government into Asia success at the moment and for a par- Minor; but I am disappointed that they ticular purpose. I am told-though I did not think it worth while to mention do not know whether it is true-that a the subject in the Royal Speech. great Continental statesman, who has constantly recommended annexation to this country, when he heard of it said"It will succeed; it will be popular in England; they will call it progress, but it is acquisition." My Lords, we have heard a great deal of Russian aggression of late; but I find in these Papers a Governor General declaring of India that we fear no aggression and desire

I now, my Lords, come to the subject to which both the noble Earl and the noble Lord so properly devoted their attention. No doubt your Lordships. have a perfectly Constitutional right to move an Amendment to the Address in answer to the Speech from the Throne; but, my Lords, it is a right which for the last 20 years has not been exercised. It is a right the exercise of which states

27

men have always deemed it well to
avoid if possible, it being desirable, out
of respect to the Sovereign, that in our
Address to the Throne we should be as
unanimous as possible. An Amendment
is all the more unnecessary when an
Address does not commit the House,
and we have simply to thank Her Ma-
jesty for the information we have re-
ceived. There is another reason, my
Lords, why I think an Amendment on
this occasion is almost impossible, with
due regard for the convenience of Peers.
Parliament has been summoned very
suddenly; but the Papers bearing upon
the causes of that summons have been
delivered to us only a very few days
ago, and we have had no time to study
I think the House
them in detail.
will expect some explanation why the
Central Asia Papers, which were pro-
mised before the close of last Session,
have been withheld from your Lord-
ships and the country till the beginning
of this week. With regard to the
Afghan Papers, they consist of so large
a mass that some considerable time
must be required to master them-I
venture to say that the great majority of
your Lordships here present have not
had the time requisite to master their
details. I therefore at once wish to
state that it is not my intention to move
any Amendment to the Address; but I
beg it to be clearly understood that I
think there are matters of the very
greatest importance with which we have
to deal, and that it will be impossible
for this House not fully to discuss the
whole subject, and to express
opinion upon it. Speaking of what
has been achieved in the field, I
source of
must say it is to me a
very great pleasure to hear of the
of our
brilliant dash and courage
troops which have led them on to success.
Whatever may be the cause, or in what-
ever part of the world, our troops never
fail, whether on land or sea; and the fact
of their success will enable us, so far as
the Opposition is concerned, all the more
thoroughly to discuss and debate the
policy of the Government, which the
noble Lord who seconded the Address
stated turned on two points-first, whe-
ther the conduct of the English Govern-
ment had been just to the Ameer; and,
secondly, whether the war itself was
just. I agree with him in thinking
the first question must be answered in

an

-

the negative, and I should have thought
that the two questions were somewhat
connected. This, my Lords, is the great
question which has called Parliament
together. I had no great anxiety about
the meeting of Parliament. I felt per-
fectly certain it would be called toge-
ther. Not that it makes any great
difference to Parliament whether it
meets now or in February, so far as it
after a war
may exercise any influence after the
mischief has been done -
has already commenced. Once you cut
the jugular vein, it does not much mat-
ter whether you send for the surgeon at
once or a week afterwards. There are
great Constitutional questions connected
with it. No one denies the absolute
Prerogative of the Crown to declare war
and make peace; but there are ques-
tions connected with every Prerogative
of the Crown, with regard to the discre-
tion and the extent to which it is used;
and it is perfectly clear to me, that if
year after year you take the country
and Parliament perfectly by surprise
and throw on them the responsibility of
measures, without the means of forming
a judgment having been afforded, you do
weaken the foundations on which the
principle of Prerogative rests, and you
may do a great deal of mischief thereby.
I do not wish to enter into the Consti-
tutional question-it rather belongs to
the whole merits of the case, on which I
do not wish to dwell to-night. But
there is this peculiarity in the case—
there has been a great change of policy
on this most important matter. During
the last three years, not only has Par-
liament not been taken into confidence
on the subject, but Parliament has
actually been led to take a wrong view
of what was the policy of the Cabinet.
During that period had Parliament any
reason to suppose that the policy of the
Government with regard to Afghanistan
was different from that of all the Secre-
taries of State, and of all Governors Ge-
neral from the time of Lord Dalhousie to
the time when the noble Marquess (the
Marquess of Salisbury) took the Seals of
the India Office? It is not my habit to
trouble your Lordships by reading long
extracts from Blue Books; but I must
trouble your Lordships with a few. In
the first place, what were the general
principles held by the Conservative
Party upon this subject nine years ago,
when they were in power? Sir Stafford

Northcote, when at the India Office, said in the House of Commons, on the 9th of July, 1869

a great deal of misapprehension arises from the popular use of maps on a small scale. As with such maps you are able to put a thumb on India and a finger on Russia, some persons at once think that the political situation is alarming, and that India must be looked to. If the noble Lord would use a larger map-say one on the scale of the Ordnance Map of England-he would find that the distance between Russia and British India is not to be measured by the finger and thumb, but by a rule. There are between them deserts and mountainous chains measured by thousands of miles, and these are serious obstacles to any advance by Russia, however well planned such an advance might be."— [3 Hansard, ccxxxiv. 1564-5.]

"Looking at it from an Indian point of view, this debate had been eminently satisfactory, both in the opinions that had been expressed and the opinions that had not been expressed. There had been no advocacy of a policy of annexation, of a policy of extending the British dominions, or of a policy of advancing in order to meet Russia midway between our Frontier and hers. The general feeling evidently was in favour of the policy of keeping within our own Frontiers-of developing the internal defences, extending the existing railways, and improving the harbour of Kurrachee, rather than attempting to go into the country of Afghan-Do such sentiments appear to be those istan. In addition to the other reasons which of a Minister who was making a great might be stated against such a proceeding as change in the Indian policy, out of fear the latter, there was the danger of creating of Russia? Not very long after that the suspicion in the minds of the natives. He believed the hon. Member for Gravesend had Duke of Argyll put a Question to the given expression to the feelings of Englishmen noble Marquess. I may say, in passing, of all parties, when he said that we ought to that the Duke of Argyll greatly regrets keep free from the imbroglio of Afghan policy that an important question like this, in There was a general feeling that we ought not which he takes so much interest, should repeat the mistakes we made in 1840; that we ought to keep ourselves entirely free from be discussed when he is unable from illentangling alliances. What we should do was health to be present. Lord Salisbury to maintain friendly relations with the natives answeredon our borders, to desire the existence of a good Government in Afghanistan. It was a misapprehension to suppose that we wanted to erect Cabul into a bulwark against Russia." -[3 Hansard, cxovii. 1578-9.]

No doubt Sir Stafford Northcote fairly represented the opinions of the Government on that occasion. I will not quote the noble Earl (the Earl of Derby), speaking in behalf of the noble Marquess in 1874, but he certainly gave no indication of any change of policy. But in 1877 there arose considerable disquietude on this subject among those conversant with India, and on June 11 of that year the noble Marquess said

"With respect to the information asked for by the noble Duke, I can hardly give him much positive knowledge; but I think I can give him some negative information. He has derived from the sources open to him the following statement, as I understood him:-that we had tried to force an Envoy upon the Ameer at Sir Lewis Pelly, whose vigour of mind and Cabul; that we had selected for that purpose action might possibly inspire apprehension in the Councils of a Native Prince; that we had supported this demand by a large assemblage of troops on the North-Western Frontier; and Now, we have not tried to force an Envoy upon that we were preparing boats upon the Indus. the Ameer at Cabul; we have not suggested Sir Lewis Pelly as an Envoy to Cabul; the troops were assembled on the North-Western Frontier without the slightest reference to any such demand; and with regard to the boats on the Indus, I never heard of them until to-day."

"I can assure the noble Lord that any danger of a Russian inroad on the Frontier of British India is not quite so far advanced as he seems-[Ibid. 1835.] to imagine. The nearest point on the Caspian at which supplies could be gathered by Russia is over a thousand miles from our Indian Frontier. The consideration of the danger to which the noble Lord refers may possibly interest a future generation of statesmen; but that calamity is not of such imminence as to render necessary the Motion by which the noble Lord seeks to avert it. I will not dwell longer on the geographical circumstances, except to protest against the statement of the noble Lord that the Empire of British India knows no bounds. My Lords, the bounds of that Empire are very minutely marked out, especially on the North-Western side. Whatever the Empire of Russia may be, there is no doubt whatever as to what the Frontier of British India is. It is perfectly well known. I cannot help thinking that in discussions of this kind

With regard to sending Envoys, the noble Marquess stated that he referred to Candahar and Herat, and not to Cabul; but in the Papers it is distinctly shown that it was announced to the Ameer that it was intended to send Sir Lewis Pelly to Cabul. The Papers say nothing about the massing of troops on the Frontier, and I do not know from the Papers what was the reason for which they were sent. Then the noble Marquess continued

"Our relations with the Ameer of Cabul have undergone no material change since last year. I do not believe that he is worse dis

posed towards us than hitherto, or that his feel- | North-West Frontier and our relations with ings are in any way more embittered towards the British Government."-[Ibid.]

Cabul, he feared that something more had occurred than had yet been heard of. It seemed unlikely that all the doubts, forebodings, and suggestions which had appeared in the Indian papers should have so little basis as contended for in the explanations of the noble Marquess. It was clear from the Indian papers, and he included those which supported the action of the Indian Government, that something of very considerable importance had occurred to cause agitation on the North-West Frontier of India."

What did my noble Friend (the Earl of
Northbrook) say? He said-

"It is with great satisfaction, therefore, that I have heard the assurance of the noble Marquess that the policy I have referred to Her Majesty's Government will continue to pursue. I am satisfied that he has given us that assurtrust him to resist any attempt to put it aside.” ance in perfect good faith, and that we may

that it was through the advice of my noble Friend (the Earl of Northbrook), and through his influence upon us, that we entirely gave up the idea of taking Parliamentary action on this subject.

My Lords, I shall listen with great anxiety to the explanation of the noble Marquess; but I must ask, after all that had happened, how was it possible to say that our relations with the Ameer had undergone no material change, and that the feelings of the Ameer were not more embittered towards the British Go--[Ibid. 1836.] vernment? Well, my Lords, a despatch from Lord Lytton was sent on the 20th of February, 1876; the next Paper to it is the answer, on the 10th of Maynot the 10th of May, 1876, but the 10th of May, 1877. Now, I really want to know what passed all this time. Are we really to believe that during these 14 months, when such important trans--[Ibid. 1843.] actions were going on, not a single communication passed between the Secre- I may add, with regard to this point, tary of State and the Viceroy of India? That seems almost impossible; but if there were a number of such despatches, I presume that they will be produced. Or are we to understand that the system of Correspondence known as "private and personal communications," and which, when attempted in the Foreign Office, exploded in the Warner police case, was adopted during that period? As I said before, I shall listen with anxiety to the explanation of the noble Marquess, how it was that during all that time there were no communications between the two Governments? But, however long that despatch of Lord Lytton was in coming, it must have been in the hands of the noble Marquess a week or a fortnight before the day when he gave the reply to which I have referred; and how, then, was it possible to say that there was no change in the position when at the time we had broken off all diplomatic relations with the Ameer, and we gave him to understand that he was not to entertain any hope of help against Russia? The noble Marquess having given this explanation, what happened? The noble Lord (Lord Lawrence), a former Governor General of India, whom I have always found the most courteous of men, did not acquiesce. He said that

"So far as Central Asia was concerned, there was nothing to be desired beyond the statement of the noble Marquess to the House, coupled with that made elsewhere' on the previous Monday; but, with regard to our policy on the

Now, I come to another question, to which I have been invited by the noble Lord who seconded the Address-I do not pretend, however, that I should not have referred to it even if the noble Lord had not done so.

The noble Lord

says that, in the despatch of the 18th of
November, the Secretary of State for
India gave a perfectly correct statement
of all that had happened. Now, my
Lords, I must say that a certain portion
certain_portion
of the despatch of the noble Viscount
(Viscount Cranbrook) conveyed the most
erroneous impression possible of what
had occurred. When a subject interests
the public they resort to every device to
get easy information upon it; they fly
to the newspapers, to abstracts, digests,
&c. to get at the matter without great
labour. Very few men are gluttons of
Blue Books. Now, I do not blame the
noble Viscount in the slightest degree
for writing and publishing the despatch
--I think he was perfectly right in taking
an opportunity of stating his own case.
But in producing such a statement,
which he knew would be read by hun-
dreds of thousands who would never
dream of reading two pages of a Blue
Book, surely it was incumbent on him to
use special care and accuracy in re-
spect of everything? I do not under-
value the difficulty of making a précis