the real facts of the case were. I am not going now to enter into the general policy of the war; but I must say I do not think the noble Duke behind me (the Duke of Somerset) was quite fair in his remarks about the noble Lord a late Governor General (Lord Lawrence) for having joined the Afghan Committee. If my noble Friend had done such a thing in the sense of supporting the Afghans against the British Government, no language would be too strong to be used in the circumstances. But as matters stand, I am surprised at the noble Duke's condemnation of my noble Friend. He has an opinion that the war is right. Very good; but my noble Friend thinks it is unjust and impolitic-an opinion in which I myself am very much disposed to concur with him. The noble Duke says that my noble Friend is not patriotic; but he would appear not to be patriotic, simply because he differs from the noble Duke, and expresses the earnest opinions which he holds. Few men in this country have given such proofs as my noble Friend has done of patriotism, of vigour, of honour, and of a desire at any risk to maintain the British Empire in India; and yet, because he does not happen to agree with the noble Duke, he is to be spoken of in such terms. It is repugnant to all my feelings of justice and to every sentiment of propriety that a man of such distinguished services should be so spoken of in this House. My noble Friend has a perfect right to express his opinions on the causes of this war, and to say whether he thinks it just or unjust. It is fortunate that we have men like him in the country, who know something of our former relations with Afghanistan, and who can correct statements which have been made, and despatches which have been published, by the knowledge which they possess. One thing more. With regard to the Amendment proposed by the noble Earl (Earl Grey), I hope it will not be pressed to a division. Unfortunately, this discussion has assumed a somewhat personal character. Nobody more regrets that circumstance than I do; but from that very fact, if the Amendment were to be pressed, your Lordships would be asked to vote upon a proposition which you have not yet had an opportunity of fully and completely discussing. At the same time, I must confess that I concur entirely with that part of the argument of the noble Earl which rests upon the Act of 1858. I hold that it is not right for any Administration carrying on war outside India to apply the Revenues of that country towards the expense of such war without the previous consent of Parliament. In this case there was plenty of time before the declaration of war for the Government to have summoned Parliament and explained their policy; therefore, that would have been a proper and a Constitutional course, because there can be no doubt that the Prerogative of the Crown is limited by Act of Parliament, and, although it is the Prerogative of the Crown to declare war, at the same time the clauses of the Act of 1858 prescribe the course that should be followed under the circumstances. It has been a matter of extreme regret to me to be placed to some extent in collision with the noble Marquess and the noble Viscount opposite. I have endeavoured since I returned from India to abstain from making unnecessarily any observations on Indian affairs. I can say with perfect sincerity that, both in and out of Parliament, I have endeavoured to look at Indian affairs entirely apart from Party politics; and I should not hesitate for a moment to express my opinion as strongly with regard to anything done by those on my own side of the House as with regard to the conduct of noble Lords opposite. THE EARL OF BEACONSFIELD : Although, my Lords, I cannot support the noble Earl who moved the Amendment, I still agree with him that there are occasions when Amendments to the Address are desirable, expedient, and politic. I think I may speak with some authority on the subject, for probably I am the only Member of this House who has, in his time, moved an Amendment to the Address-with what success I care not to recollect-but, at the same time, a feeling of duty, such as that which has animated the noble Earl, actuated me, and I am quite prepared to say that, under similar circumstances, I should deem it my duty to take a similar course. What, then, was the state in which we found ourselves some 25 years ago, advocating a cause with deep and warm convictions, but one which, perhaps, was not supported by a majority of the House, to which we appealed, or 75 the nation? The Recess had passed. | reinforced them as was required. This, We had all of us made a good many my Lords, is a strange vein to indulge in speeches-in which, probably, we had when we are asked not to enter upon the used language not much more measured merits of this question. If that insinuathan we have lately become accustomed tion against the Government be founded to; many of us had written letters on fact, we should be unworthy of the seats we hold. Is it to be said that those though not so many, perhaps, as some individuals have done in more modern soldiers, who have given so good an account of the enemy, have not been adetimes; and, under these circumstances, being also-if I may recall the circum-quately supported? Is the country to be stance without offence-members of a informed on the first opportunity that society of great activity and organiza- they are hardly equal to the exertions tion more active certainly than the they have been called upon to make? Afghan Committee having agitated Not more complimentary to the troops the country for a considerable time by than to Her Majesty's Government. the sincere expression of our opinion, I cannot but feel that the country toTo-morrow the we did think that when Parliament met morrow will be greatly disappointed in we were bound to take the opinion of reading this debate. that great Assembly on the question country will not be considering what oue which we had so long described as ex-Minister may have written, or what of the highest importance and of the a present Minister may have quoted. The noble Earl It may, under ordinary circumstances, most urgent interest. (Earl Grey) has taken that step to-day; be a legitimate mode of passing our but the noble Earl (Earl Granville), in time that we should compare notes on his recognized position of Leader of the such subjects, and if any misrepresentaOpposition in this House, has taken tions have been made as to the conduct He has or expression of individuals our utmost an entirely different course. declared that to-night we are not to efforts on both sides should be given to enter into the question of policy which rectify them; but is it right that hour so deeply interests the country, and after hour should be wasted, at a time which, if we are to judge from the when the country wants our opinion on speeches, organization, and conduct of one of the greatest issues ever submitted noble Lords opposite and their friends to the consideration of Parliament, in in the country, so deeply excites and order to ascertain whether Secretary This agitates them. We are not to-night misquoted the despatch of Governor Geto enter into the merits of that policy, neral That? Hours have been passed in a but confine ourselves to what the discussion leading to such a mystificanoble Earl who fast spoke (the Earl tion that, excepting the principal actors of Northbrook) so admirably described in the scene, I defy any human being to as descending into the personalities of understand what the whole controversy To whatever monstrous the question. But, although the Leader is about. of the Opposition told us that we were proportions you may exaggerate this not to-night to enter upon the question discussion, it is nothing after all but of policy, he still felt it consistent with an official squabble; while the real his duty to denounce the war into which issue is the most important that can be we have entered as an unjust and impolitic presented for our consideration. See war. He has still felt it consistent with the unjust effect produced upon the his duty to hold up to depreciation and House-By this singular process of deridicule the Viceroy of the Queen, who is bating, we are not to discuss to-night the at this moment incurring the greatest policy to discuss which Parliament has responsibility, and on the devotion of been summoned. But though we are not whose intelligence more, perhaps, de- to discuss it, the Leader of the Opposition pends than on that of any other indivi- has given his opinion on the great issue. dual in the country. He has even felt He tells you we are engaged in an unjust But what is this? it consistent with his views to intimate and impolitic war. that Her Majesty's Ministers are, at this It is mere assumption. If the war is moment, neglecting their highest duty, unjust and impolitic, prove it. Bring and that they are not supporting those forward your reasons and your argugallant men whose heroic exploits have ments. Assail our policy, and give us just reached us, and that we have not the proofs on which your opinions are been akin to what has been charged against my noble Friend the Secretary of State for India (Viscount Cranbrook). of garbling in a despatch an epitome of important State Papers which he knew would necessarily be made known within 48 hours of the publication of his own despatch. My Lords, the language which Her Majesty has been advised to use in the gracious Speech from the Throne has been entirely warranted by circumstances. Wo do look upon the Berlin Treaty as certain to be carried completely and successfully into effect. But the noble Earl founded. Do this and we will meet you, | and the House and the country will decide. That is the legitimate and Constitutional manner which the noble Earl (Earl Grey) has adopted in moving his Amendment. But to-night we have been for hours listening in the House of Lords whilst a number of influential men have risen and denounced as unjust and impolitic what they refrain from attacking openly and frankly. It would be vain at this hour to enter into such a discussion. The noble Earl opposite has, with consummate dexterity, prevented any expression of opinion by Parliament on this all-engrossing sub-says-"It is not merely the Treaty of ject to-night. It is postponed to some day when there may be a long and adjourned debate; instead of now animating the spirit of the country, and explaining why they are called upon to make great sacrifices and encouraging that patriotic spirit which has been sneered at, but which I trust there are some in this House who appreciate. A week may yet elapse, at a time very critical to this country, before the opinion of Parliament can be taken. I cannot refrain from expressing my entire disapprobation of this course of proceeding. I admit its dexterity; but I think that there are times when Parliamentary manoeuvring, a very happy quality when great interests are not at stake, may be misplaced. There are one or two points on which I should not have touched on this occasion, but for some remarks which the noble Earl called upon me to notice. He has a habit, when I do not notice every remark he makes, most amiably to remind me of it, and I must notice what he tells us about the Treaty of Berlin. The noble Earl, who has already decided, without discussion, the question of this war, expresses great doubts about the statement in the gracious Speech from the Throne, that Her Majesty has every reason to believe the Treaty of Berlin will be successfully carried into effect; and he asks us, like a counsel cross-examining a doubtful witness-" But is this the real opinion of the Ministry?" If it had not been, is it to be supposed that we should have recommended Her Majesty to use such language, and ourselves have come down to support such a Speech from the Throne? Why, my Lords, in that case our conduct would have been not only infamous, but absurd. I may, in fact, say that it would have Berlin. There are other Treaties; thero is the Convention with Turkey. Why not insert a paragraph in the Queen's Speech to inform Parliament what is being done to effect the reform of the Ottoman Empire?" Why, the Treaty of Berlin, like other Treaties, provides a certain specified time during which its arrangements may be properly carried into effect, and a moiety of the period has not yet elapsed. Probably of all the arrangements connected with the Treaty of Berlin, the arrangements with respect to Turkey are the most important. But the noble Earl is under a great error in supposing that nothing has been done. Unceasing labour has been bestowed upon the subject; and nothing but the great ability of those who fortunately are in the employment of Her Majesty abroad, their perseverance, and untiring devotion to their task could have effected the considerable results already accomplished. My Lords, I look forward to the Convention respecting Turkey and Cyprus as one likely to prove most advantageous, not merely for this country, but for the world in general; I look forward with confidence to the regoneration of Asia Minor. When the noble Earl turns round and ridicules the occupation of Cyprus and the objects for which we undertook that occupation, I will tell him that it is not easy in language to describe the advantages of that position; and when the noble Earl assumes that the Island is wanting in many qualities which were announced, and that its acquisition is a blunder, I can assure him that the conditions for which we agreed to occupy that Island have been entirely fulfilled. I repeat without the slightest fear, after commu nication with my Colleagues who have that not only in this country, but in recently visited it, that it will be, as other countries where the industry I have formerly said, most important peculiarly affects our own, where the as "a place of arms,' as affording a course of commerce exercises a particular capacious harbour for our Navy, and influence on the industry of England, unlimited convenience for the quartering there are symptoms of amelioration and of Her Majesty's Forces. It has en- general amendment which must in time tirely fulfilled our expectations, and I -and perhaps sooner than the country believe will soon be recognized as one of is prepared for- bring about those adthe most important and influential posi- vantageous results which, after periods tions under the dominion of Her Majesty. of suffering, we have before experienced. My Lords, I regret very much that there But in a Speech from the Throne adhas been a feeling among certain of dressed to Parliament assembled for a your Lordships that there has been an specific purpose, upon which the attenomission in the gracious Speech from the tion of Parliament ought to be concenThrone, inasmuch as there was no al-trated, it did not appear to us advisable to lusion to the prevalent distress in the country consequent on the badness of trade. That was through no inadvertence, no neglect. Noble Lords opposite will, I am sure, agree with me in one thing that there are no persons so interested in the prosperity of the country as Her Majesty's Ministers, whoever they may be. But it is a questionable course to allude publicly to the distress of the country when it is not peculiar to the country itself; when you are not yourselves prepared with any remedial measures; and when, if you express your real opinions, you may give rise to hopes and miscalculations which afterwards may be disappointed and defeated, and which you must deplore. That is the reason that has governed us in this case. What is the real state of affairs at present? The distress in this country is great; but there are circumstances which alleviate it in the low price of provisions. Still, that distress cannot be denied; and yet it must be borne in mind that it is a commercial distress, which is shared by every other country. It has been occasioned by the same causes which occasion the distress of other countries. Her Majesty's Government are not prepared-I do not suppose any Government would be preparedwith any measures which would attempt to alleviate the extensive distress which now prevails. But if we are pressed upon the subject, it is, I trust, justifiable, though I speak with the utmost diffidence, to say that the opinion of Her Majesty's Government is that the worst part of the distress has been experienced. We believe, from all that reaches us, that there are indications, not in this country only but in other countries, of a re-action. We believe introduce the subject, though we hope that before the year is passed we shall every day find ourselves in a better position with respect to the employment of the people, the employment of capital, and the enterprize of individuals. I will not dwell on the words of the President of the United States, though words from such an authority and such a quartor cannot be treated with too much consideration. But the enterprize of America generally precedes that of Europe, as the industry of England precedes that of the rest of Europe; and I look forward with confidence that the industry and enterprize of America will be productive of beneficial results upon this country. I should not like to sit down without thanking the noble Earl who moved the Address for the speech which he made this evening. I am sure the House listened to it with much interest. It would well have preceded a debate which, unfortunately, we are not to have. But it will be a satisfaction to my noble Friend to remember that it has been his lot, which is not the lot of all of us, to have in his time addressed both Houses, and to have succeeded in interesting both. I do not wonder at the interest which has been shown in the affairs of India by my noble Friend who seconded the Address. I believe there is no portion of Her Majesty's subjects who have profited more by our Indian Empire than the Irish; and, what is more, our Indian Empire is, perhaps, more indebted to them for the great talent and energy which they have shown in its administration than any portion of Her Majesty's subjects. Well, my Lords, in conclusion, we are told that on Monday we are to deal with this great question which now excites public attention, and that we are to come to a decision upon | Marquess has read me a severe lecture it. We have received intelligence to-day for indulging in personalities. I adwhich no man, on whatever side he sits, mit that there is no greater authocan read without pride and admiration. rity in either House of Parliament Whatever may be the results of that than the noble Marquess on the subbrilliant victory-and I should hope ject of personalities; but as the House that the result will be speedy and has been misled on a most important satisfactory-there can be but one opi- measure and policy which has been nion among us as to the admirable quali- maturing for two years, I think it is ties by which that victory has been ac- not mere personality to ask for some complished. Her Majesty's Ministers, explanation of what has occurred. Tho my Lords, have another sort of encounter noble Earl (the Earl of Beaconsfield), hanging over us. I know not what may who is himself not wanting in authority be its result. The decision may differ on a question of Parliamentary manoufrom what might be calculated upon in vring, has given me a severe lecture ordinary times. Whatever that result for the manoeuvring I have done to-day. may be individually, I am prepared to Well, I have only made a complaint meet it, as, I am sure, are my Colleagues. which I thought I was entitled to make, Whatever the result, it will be, I hope, and asked certain questions which have equal to the occasion. That the House not been answered. I had consulted of Lords will decide that they will main- the convenience of the House in not tain the Empire, and that they will not beginning a skirmishing discussion on in any way sanction that policy which the merits of a question which must bo mistakes timidity for wisdom;--that is thoroughly discussed, and on which the what I most earnestly hope, and that is House will be asked to give an opinion what I believe the people of England on the early opportunity which has been expect. promised by the noble Viscount. In conclusion, I appeal to my noble Friend on the cross benches to withdraw the Amendment, which cannot be disconnectod entirely from the general subject which is to be discussed on Monday. EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, may I be permitted to reply very briefly to some of the criticisms which have been made? The noble Duke has complained of my being illogical in condenning a war which I consider unjust, unnecessary, and impolitic, and yet being ready to Vote the Supplies for it. He is quito right it is illogical; but when once our soldiers are before the enemy, and the honour of the country is engaged, however illogical it may be, I will not consent to deprive our army of the necessary support, however desirous I may be that the war should be brought to a speedy termination, honourable to ourselves, and just to the foe. The noble Duke complains that a disapprobation of the war will encourage the Ameer. But Parliament has been dobarred from any previous knowledge of the policy which has caused this war; and now when it has broken out, if we may not discuss this policy, lest it should encourage a semi-barbarian on the other side of the world, there cannot be much use in calling Parliament together at all. But if I am willing to kiss the rod of an old political and personal friend like the noble Duke, I am not prepared to do the same for the rod of the noblo Marquess (the Marquess of Salisbury). It is much too full of buds. The noble EARL GREY said, he would not press his Amendment to a division; but he wished the Question to be put. Question put, Whether the said words shall be there inserted? Resolved in the negative. Then the original Motion was agreed to. Ordered that the said Address be presented to Her Majesty by the Lords with White Staves. |